Why was Anthony reluctant to see his mother when she meets him? Was mike manipulating his own son against his mother?

Most likely in an indirect way. Anthony, it appears had a great love and respect for his father, and seeing how Mike didn't pay much attention to Kay, Anthony felt he shouldn't either.

Thanks Johnny Ola that makes sense but what about when Kay says look whats happening to our boy during the fight, what did she mean by that?

She was probably referring to his estrangment from her plus his being in the milieu that was Mike's Mafia way of life and she feared he was destined to join it.

Agreed.

Anthony was just weird. He loved his father but then became very estranged from him ... even contemptuous....but once Mike let him become an opera singer it seemed like everything was forgiven and forgotten.

I guess it just goes to show those artistic types are a bit twisted.

Anthony didn't have an "average" up-bringing,therefor he's weird.With a life like his and being exposed to it,he was bound to go a little loopy.

Back to the question,Michael perhaps, could have told Anthony that his mother was a "bad person" etc

He probably just liked Michael more because Kay had to raise him/discipline him and whenever Michael was around it was time for fun (Note: see massive communion party).

I'm not sure what anyone means by Anthony's acting weird. He's not in II very much and doesn't say much and in III he's grown.

What a boring party for a boy. There were more adults there than kids.

Good point Mignon, but I was referring to the "lots of presents" part of the party.

That's probably the only part he liked about the party.

Thats the only part of any party that kids like.

Yeah, I'm sure all eight year olds would just love some long winded senator followed by the Siera Boys' Choir.

But, dt, you and I would have appreciated the quartet singing "Bella Figlia dell' Amore" (deleted scene) even if we were kids.

They really deleted some lovely music from the communion scene.

But they left in the big dance number!

IMHO I think Anthony heard his mother say she got an abortion. He was standing just outside the room where Kay and Micheal were yelling at each other so he had to have heard her. As young as he was at the time I think maybe he understood what that meant as her follow up to that was to yell, "It was a son and I had it killed..." Poor kid with a cold distant father then to find out his mother killed his little brother before he was born.

No wonder that boy didn't want to kiss her!

This is an excellent observation AP. It puts everything into context, especially with Kay's "holier than thou" attitude toward Michael's penchant for having people whacked. At least Michael didn't whack any babies.

I don't think that had anything to do with Anthony's estrangement from his mother. Since the inference is that Michael obtained custody of the children, one may also infer that Michael did as so many divorced parents do, he inveiged against Kay. Anthony was simply following his father's lead.

By the way, I am amused 45 by your holier than thou characterization of someone's reaction to multiple murder. Afterall, it is only murder that Michael contenances. How dare anyone object to that!

Uh, holier than thou was probably a poor choice of words.

Welcome to the BB.

That could be it but its left so open that any things possible.

I was merely comparing a baby murderer to an adult murderer . . . both are guilty.

"Wherefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest. For wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself. For thou dost the same things which thou judgest."

Getting back to why Anthony was acting somewhat strangely, I shall provide my speculations.

But first, I apologize in advance if this post becomes ponderous, but that was a really, really good question, and like any good question, it might take more than just a few words to answer it.

While trying to give my views, I will mention events in the order in which they are presented in the film, although I do mean to ultimately respond to the original question posed by Don Zaf, to wit:

Why was Anthony reluctant to see his mother when she meets him? Was mike manipulating his own son against his mother?

<a tip of the hat to Don Zaf>

Here goes:

In the part of Godfather II, where Kay confronts Michael with the idea that his lifestyle and profession are doing harm to Anthony, the scene unfolds more or less as follows:

First we see a nanny and the children, Mary and Anthony, cooling their heels in a hallway in the Hotel Washington, probably just outside the room in which Michael and Kay are about to have their argument in.

Mary is skipping up and down in the hallway, cavorting happily and noisily, while while Anthony slumps against the wall silently and without movement. At first he seems like he might be bored, or for some reason, dejected.

After we hear what Michael and Kay have to say to one another, we might come to think that perhaps Anthony is actually depressed.

The couple begins their verbal fencing, and as Apollonia correctly pointed out, the kids could obviously hear what they had to say. Hell, the way those two were shrieking at one another, I wouldn't have been surprised to learn that all of DC heard what they had to say!

<the Cag bows cordially at donna Apollonia in thanks for the input>

Kay's first thrusts seem to show us that she's somewhat miffed-- and either jealous or morally outraged-- by the fact that Michael seems to have (once again and as usual) gotten away with virtual murder-- if not worse. Kay never really did approve of the family business, after all. So, she offers him a frosty congratulation for being "too smart for any of them to beat you". She then goes on to wonder aloud just what the hocus-pocus involving the Pentangeli brothers was all about...

Michael demurs gently. He more or less suggests that what happened between Frank and Vincenzo Pentangeli was their affair, and theirs alone. Kay seems to believe this about as much as I believe I will be the next Pope. Smart girl!

Kay, in apparent frustration, then decides to abandon the preliminary strokes and just go straight for Michael's heart by bringing up the specter of her taking off with the children.

At this point, she justifies her abandonment of him by saying, "Look-- look what's happened to us, Mike -- my God, look what's happened to our son, Michael!"

Michael denies that anything is wrong with Anthony. But then Kay goes on to remind Michael that Anthony's life is weird. For instance, she tells him that, "Anthony's friends... are your buttonmen!" They woof at one another before and after this dramatic statement...

Now, Mama Mignon and Don Tomasso <a respectful kiss on the hand of Mama Mignon, and a stately bow to Don Tomasso for their input> have clearly pointed out that Anthony's First Communion party was anything but the sort of bash that a kid his age would really have gotten off to.

Let's face it: he would probably have rather gone for pizza at an amusement park than to have put up with the sort of boring festivities he was actually treated to. And maybe this, when taken together with the fact that Anthony seems to hang around with adult soldiers and caporegima instead of regular children his age might all be enough to bring him down... but methinks there might-maybe have been more afoot than just these things...

We don't know how, exactly, Anthony and Mary are schooled. If they're in public schools the way Joe Bonanno's grandchildren were, then we might suspect that perhaps he suffers the castigation of his peers as a result of their father's identity, which was so vividly outed by the fact of the congressional committee and subsequent publicity. But somehow, I don't think that Michael would have put his first-born children in a public school... ah, but all of this is but bald speculation, and I can't stand by any of it. However, the fact remains that all children of notorious criminals (whether privately educated or not) tend to eventually pay a heavy social price at one point or another in their lives.

And let's go back to what Apollonia said: that Anthony was privy to such a dire conversation as the one in which Kay told Michael that she had killed (her exact word) Michael's son... Anthony's unborn baby brother.

We, as adults, can sit around and try to evaluate the relative criminality (or lack of it) when comparing the business of offing one's physically lethal business competitors and enemies against the business of aborting a child... but never mind us. Instead, let's consider the social mores that would have prevailed in Godfather II, where Kay has an abortion in the more restrictive social setting of the late 1950's. With this in mind, it is possible to say (without regard to my personal beliefs regarding homicide of any type) that it would have been rather easy for Anthony to cleave to the side of his very strong father instead of clinging to his now-outcast mother.

Finally, let's consider the scene in which Connie finds herself in the unhappy position of having to shoo Kay out the door because Michael just showed up:

When Connie woofs at Anthony to go over and kiss his mother, Anthony doesn't drag his butt. Instead, he RUNS over to her, and he hugs her strongly. But he still won't kiss her, especially not in front of his father. Anthony is trying to show loyalty to his father, despite his continuing affection for his mom. If Michael would have showed up thirty seconds later, maybe Anthony would have finally kissed her. Lord knows that this is what Connie and Kay wanted him to do... and maybe even what Anthony, in his heart of hearts, desperately longed to do.

The poor kid...

Somehow, I don't think that Michael would have actually gone so far as to try and overtly poison his son's attitude towards his mother, although I am certain that Mike's negative attitude towards Kay would have been palpable anyway. But to preach against her would have gone against the grain of Michael's heritage, within which, one's mother is somewhat akin to the Virgin Mary and is always to be loved-- no matter what. And again, I will mention the sort of social mien that prevailed in the late Fifties, when one didn't quite discuss family skeletons with one's children... until they were old enough to understand... if even then...

It would have been too impolite, too coarse... too low-life. Too humiliating!

Poor Anthony! He still loved her, but he is a conflicted child, with issues that have been mixed together as if by having his heart turned into puree by a high-dollar food processor. I cannot quite wonder at the fact that he is so mixed up, and so sad. I would have been amazed if he wasn't.

Putting it simply I will say this: the kid was under a lot of pressure, and we can expect pressurized children to be a bit tweaky at the very least.

I can only console myself on behalf of Kay and Anthony by reflecting that by the time of Godfather III, Anthony seems to have reconciled with his overwrought mother, and she has come to become his great sponsor insofar as his career as a performance artist is concerned. She's there to joust against Michael once again on Anthony's behalf, bless her heart! And if this hadn't been the case, I would have remained shattered.

When Michael closed the door in Kay's face, I cried about as hard as she did. It hurt like hell, because I sympathized with all of them! I was so upset that I personally shot half my crew for treason, even though none of them were disloyal!

That stupid movie! NOW look what you made me do!

Finally, with a chuckle and friendly wink at Don Tomasso, I must agree: those artistic types are usually kind of weird!

Alas! This stupid thing I wrote turned out to be too long. I'm sorry!

But as Frank Pentangeli once said,

You'll have to excuse me -- I'm tired, and I'm a little drunk!

See you in church!

Eddie, I'm not sure about your perceptions. For one, Anthony does take his time about walking over to his mother and he doesn't hug her. For two, Kay is already out the door when Michael shows up. There's no 30 seconds possible.

As I posted above, it's simple. Michael had custody of the kids and he probably led them to believe that their mother didn't love them or something similar. A custodial parent will sometimes do that depending on their level of avarice in an attempt to get back at the other parent. When Anthony grows up, matures, and begins to realize who his father is and what his father has done, he restores his relationship with his mother as it was meant to be. It's not a reconciliation; Anthony relaizes that he has been led astray.

Thanks for your input Eddie and welcome to the boards.

Maybe Anthony is pissed because Kay threw out his favorite G.I. Joe and sent him to bed without ice cream. Lousy ass Kay.