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Yet Another GFII Question
#27811
04/18/05 03:27 PM
04/18/05 03:27 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 319 Providence, RI
Moscarelli
OP
Capo
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OP
Capo
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 319
Providence, RI
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Okay, lets say Hyman was behind the assasination attempt on Michael (which is the popular theory). Michael goes and acts all buddy buddy with Roth, and says that Pentangalie was behind it, and that he would be killed. Now, another popular theory is that Hyman Roth had the Rosatos go after Pentangalie. Why? If Michael said that he would kill Pentangalie, why would Roth go and kill him? This, as of now, is the one thing I don't understand out of all three films. No, I didn't search for them...I'm just not in the mood. But, I guess, if you guys wanna be mean I will try and gain the extra effort to search for it...
"The toe you stepped on yesterday may be attached to the ass you have to kiss today." -Former Mayor of Providence, RI, Vincent "Buddy" Cianci
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Re: Yet Another GFII Question
#27813
04/18/05 04:33 PM
04/18/05 04:33 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 319 Providence, RI
Moscarelli
OP
Capo
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 319
Providence, RI
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Well wouldn't this logic only prove to Michael that Hyman did it? If Hyman knew that Michael was lyeing to him in saying it was Frank, then wouldn't he know that Michael really suspected him as the man behind the assasination?
"The toe you stepped on yesterday may be attached to the ass you have to kiss today." -Former Mayor of Providence, RI, Vincent "Buddy" Cianci
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Re: Yet Another GFII Question
#27815
04/18/05 05:12 PM
04/18/05 05:12 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 319 Providence, RI
Moscarelli
OP
Capo
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 319
Providence, RI
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Hmmm, so why would Hyman continue with the Cuba deal if he knew that Michael knew that Hyman was behind it? If that makes as much sense as it did in my head...
"The toe you stepped on yesterday may be attached to the ass you have to kiss today." -Former Mayor of Providence, RI, Vincent "Buddy" Cianci
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Re: Yet Another GFII Question
#27816
04/18/05 07:10 PM
04/18/05 07:10 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,518 AZ
Turnbull
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,518
AZ
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Michael was acting on his father's advice: "Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer." When he called on Roth and said, "Frank Pentangeli is a dead man," he was making Roth believe he blamed Pentangeli for the Tahoe attack. BUT: When Michael dispatched Pentangeli to settle his problems with the Rosato brothers, Roth knew that he didn't blame Pentangeli after all--meaning that he might suspect Roth. So, Roth ordered the Rosatos to kill Pentangeli. Pentangeli was Michael's man in New York City, and still, apparently, his loyal ally. Roth tried to have him whacked before he and Michael could cook up any mischief against Roth. Probaby Roth didn't tell his motive to the Rosatos--he probably said, "Hey, look, this guy's never gonna settle with you the way you want. Get rid of him now. Let me worry about Michael Corleone." Now, Moscarelli, to your excellent question: If Michael knew that Roth was behind the Tahoe attack--and Roth knew that Michael knew it--why did Roth invite Michael to Havana? In a word: greed. Roth had made a deal with Michael for him to take over Roth's Cuban gambling operation in return for a $2 million "gift for the President" [of Cuba]. Roth wanted that $2 million. He never felt he was in danger because, as the most powerful gringo on the island, he could have his pals in the Cuban government squash Michael like a bug. He figured, "Heh-heh, I'll lure him into my island stronghold, whack him--and make him pay $2 million for the privilege." Why did Michael go to Cuba, where he would be in absolute, mortal danger? Because he knew that Roth was greedy for the $2 million. He knew that Roth wouldn't move against him--and his family back in Tahoe--unless and until Roth got the $2 million. Meanwhile, by stalling Roth, he was buying time to find out who was the traitor in his family--and, as we saw, he did find out. Roth wasn't worried about Michael because he arrived with only one bodyguard--and what was one bodyguard against all the Cuban military muscle Roth could count on? Of course Roth underestimated Michael. But then, Michael underestimated Roth before the Tahoe shooting, and did it again at the Senate hearing. One of the recurring themes in the Trilogy is how powerful people underestimate each other.
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu, E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu... E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
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Re: Yet Another GFII Question
#27820
04/19/05 11:58 AM
04/19/05 11:58 AM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,518 AZ
Turnbull
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,518
AZ
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Long answer: As you know, the first time he states that it was Roth was when he met with Pentangeli in New York. I believe he was 99 percent certain it was Roth within minutes of the attack. I think he concluded, with his "Sicilian cunning" (a term much-used by Puzo in the novel), that Frankie was too obviously set up to be the fall guy for the shooting. Frankie (not Roth) came to the party. Frankie (not Roth) had a beef with Michael over the Rosato brothers. Frankie shouted at him. Therefore, Frankie had the motive to kill him. But it was too pat, too obvious, too cut-and-dried. And Frankie wasn't smart enough to pull off the attempted hit and arrange for the shooters to be killed before they were found. Vito had taught Michael to think as those around him think. He may finally have realized that, although Roth and Vito had been partners in the Prohibition-era booze business, they weren't partners in the Western and Cuban gambling empire tht Roth ran. Michael had been muscling in on Roth ever since he got back from Sicily. Michael killed Moe Green, Roth's best friend, to get control of his hotel. Now Michael owned or controlled three Nevada hotel/casinos, was about to muscle into a fourth one partly owned by Roth, and had designs on Roth's Havana operations. So I think that, after the shooting, Michael realized that Roth (who also benefited from Vito's teaching) was keeping Michael, his enemy, close by treating him like a son and promising to make him his heir-apparent, even as he was planning to kill him. BTW: I believe Michael was 99 percent certain it was Roth when he met with Frankie. He became 100 percent certain when Frankie agreed to "settle [his] problems with the Rosato brothers." By agreeing to the meeting, Frankie put himself in mortal danger--proof that he was still loyal to Michael. And it was a win/win for Michael: If Frankie came to terms with the Rosatos, that was one less worry for Michael. If they attacked Frankie, it was more proof-positive that Roth was behind the Tahoe attack. Clever Michael!
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu, E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu... E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
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Re: Yet Another GFII Question
#27821
04/19/05 03:19 PM
04/19/05 03:19 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468 With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso
Consigliere to the Stars
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Consigliere to the Stars
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
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To support what Turnbull is saying, I would add that the scene between Pentangeli and Michael where Pentangeli makes it clear that Vito Corleone did business with Hyman Roth, Respected Hyman Roth but never trusted Hyman Roth goes unchallenged by Michael. Also, later in the film, Michael sarcastically ponts out that Roth has been dying of the same heart attack for forty years. These are deep rooted and long standing suspicions. Also when Michale tells Tom that he, Tom is the only one he can trust he adds "if what's happened is what I think what's happened, I have to leave here tonight. This means he formed a theory that it was Roth andhe had to put his plan into gear.
"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"
"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."
"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."
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