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What If...the Watergate burglary was NOT busted? #415337
07/15/07 03:19 AM
07/15/07 03:19 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 13,145
East Tennessee
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ronnierocketAGO Offline OP
ronnierocketAGO  Offline OP
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East Tennessee
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I28mQEVJQso

June 17th, 1972

The White House "Plumbers," the black-ops group assembled by the Nixon Administration to stop "leaks" within the administration, committed a second successful break-in at the Watergate Hotel in Washington, D.C., which was serving as the National HQ for the DNC for the 1972 campaigns.

The earlier break-in, on May 28, the unit had many objectives, including finding any evidence (if at all) that the George McGovern Presidential campaign was being financed by the communist Cuban government....but mostly to plant "bugs" on the telephones of key DNC administrators.

But one of the bugs apparently malfunctioned, and the second break-in was committed to repair the bug.

The problem was that night patrolman Frank Willis discovered that on one of the door locks was duct tape....earlier he had found duct tape and removed it. Realizing that there were intruders within the building, Willis at 1:47 AM called the police and by 2:30 AM, all 5 burglars were arrested.

This would begin the great Watergate scandal that 2 years and 2 months later, would result in President Nixon resigning in total disgrace.

BUT.................

What if the "bug" had not malfunctioned? What if Frank Willis didn't notice the replaced duct tape? What if the breaking & entering work done by the Plumbers (financed by C.R.E.E.P.) was not detected?

Questions to be pondered:

(1)What would the state of journalism and the news media itself be if since the burglary was NOT busted, there would be no Carl Bernstein and Bob Woodward investigating and discovering for weeks and months on end in unraveling the "big picture" and thus no ALL THE PRESIDENT'S MEN?

(2)Vice-President Spiro T. Agnew claimed that Nixon released the accusations of bribes/tax evasion against Agnew in 1973 in order to divert attention from the Watergate fire. Since its not a secret that Nixon hated Agnew and probably would have done his best to prevent Agnew's campaign to win the GOP Presidential nomination in 1976....If what Agnew claims is true, would Agnew have succeeded in winning the 1976 GOP nomination, or would the Nixon-backed candidate (Reagan?) triumph?

(3)On that note, Jimmy Carter in part got the 1976 Democratic nomination, and won the General Election, by campaigning himself as the "honest open government" candidate against the urine stain that was Watergate....would he still have gotten the nomination? If not who?

(4)Who would have won the 1976 election?

(5)Nixon administration figures like Pat Buchanan claim that if Watergate had not happened, and Nixon had completed his full two-terms of office, and without the molestation of the scandal, that America would have won the Vietnam War. Would that have happened or not?

(6)What about Gerald Ford?

(7) If Agnew, Reagan, or any other super Conservative Republican Hawk was elected President in 1976, is it safe to assume they wouldn't have continued Kissinger/Nixon's "Detente" foreign policy that was followed in our reality deep into Carter's Administration (until the Afghanistan invasion in 1979).

(8)What would have been the long-term American political ramifications? Would America be as distrust worthy of its government as it continues to this day?

(9)That said, it is possible that "Deep Throat" (disapointed FBI superior Mark Felt) would have let in Woodward on what happened. Would that have made a difference?

(10)Even if Watergate wasn't busted open, would Nixon's own self-destructive qualities have screwed him and his administration ultimately sooner or later?

Last edited by ronnierocketAGO; 07/15/07 03:51 AM.
Re: What If...the Watergate burglary was NOT busted? [Re: ronnierocketAGO] #415527
07/15/07 11:40 AM
07/15/07 11:40 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
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Texas
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olivant Offline
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What a can of worms you opened! Where to begin?

The accusations against Agnew resulted in a conviction, so that would have been public knowlege.

Carter also campaigned that he was a Washington outsider and didn't owe anybody in Washington anything.

The US and N. Vietnam were well into negotiations by the time Watrgate exploded, so had Nixon remained in office it was likely that there would have been a negotiated end to the war, not a US victory.

Reagan might have won the Republican nomination 76 and would have won the Presidency.

If Reagan would have been President since '76, there's a good chance that the Cold War would stil be going on.

Nixon didn't have that much time left in office when Watergate broke, so who knows what damage who wold have done.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: What If...the Watergate burglary was NOT buste [Re: olivant] #415783
07/15/07 06:17 PM
07/15/07 06:17 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,512
Right here, but I'd rather be ...
long_lost_corleone Offline
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long_lost_corleone  Offline
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Right here, but I'd rather be ...
What a horrible, horrible thought. I can't imagine what would've happened if Nixon didn't go down with such a bad image (worse than it already was). There would be more fools populating the earth, for sure.

By the way, Olivant, are you suggesting the U.S. was victorious in Vietnam, or did I read that wrong?

Last edited by long_lost_corleone; 07/15/07 06:20 PM.

"Somebody told me when the bomb hits, everybody in a two mile radius will be instantly sublimated, but if you lay face down on the ground for some time, avoiding the residual ripples of heat, you might survive, permanently fucked up and twisted like you're always underwater refracted. But if you do go gas, there's nothing you can do if the air that was once you is mingled and mashed with the kicked up molecules of the enemy's former body. Big-kid-tested, motherf--ker approved."
Re: What If...the Watergate burglary was NOT buste [Re: long_lost_corleone] #415818
07/15/07 07:18 PM
07/15/07 07:18 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,020
Texas
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olivant Offline
olivant  Offline
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Texas
Wrong.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: What If...the Watergate burglary was NOT buste [Re: olivant] #415821
07/15/07 07:22 PM
07/15/07 07:22 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 12,543
Gateshead, UK
Capo de La Cosa Nostra Offline
Capo de La Cosa Nostra  Offline

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Gateshead, UK
All the President's Men would never have been made, and I'd be a masterpiece down in my film list.


...dot com bold typeface rhetoric.
You go clickety click and get your head split.
'The hell you look like on a message board
Discussing whether or not the Brother is hardcore?
Re: What If...the Watergate burglary was NOT busted? [Re: ronnierocketAGO] #415828
07/15/07 08:12 PM
07/15/07 08:12 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,797
Pennsylvania
klydon1 Offline
klydon1  Offline

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Posts: 11,797
Pennsylvania
Woodward and Bernstein wouldn't have garnered the national fame that resulted from Watergate, but even without Watergate there was a growing distrust of government, the CIA, the oil industry. There was a politically active younger generation that questioned and defied authority as never before. The era of investigative journalism was on its way.

I don't think Agnew would have won another election in his life, and would have been convicted with or without Watergate.

I guess Carter would have won the nomination. He was a breeze of fresh air at a stagnant time. Reagan in '76 couldn't beat Ford, who had pardoned Nixon. A joke from "All in the Family" around that time was the Meatheasaying about Archie, "This from a man who didn't like Ford or Carter, so he wrote in Ronald Reagan." The studio audience laughed hysterically as Reagan was widely viewed as on the right wing fringe with limited appeal.

Mo Udall and Scoop Jackson were challengers to Carter in the primaries, but the only Democrat on the landscape who could have challenged Carter in '76 was Ted Kennedy.

I disagree with Buchanan on the VietNam War.

Without Watergate Ford probably would have retired as a Congressman.

Re: What If...the Watergate burglary was NOT buste [Re: olivant] #415842
07/15/07 08:56 PM
07/15/07 08:56 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,512
Right here, but I'd rather be ...
long_lost_corleone Offline
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long_lost_corleone  Offline
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Right here, but I'd rather be ...
 Originally Posted By: olivant
Wrong.


Thought so. It's pretty indisputable we lost that one.

Going back to it, I think I understand what you meant now.


"Somebody told me when the bomb hits, everybody in a two mile radius will be instantly sublimated, but if you lay face down on the ground for some time, avoiding the residual ripples of heat, you might survive, permanently fucked up and twisted like you're always underwater refracted. But if you do go gas, there's nothing you can do if the air that was once you is mingled and mashed with the kicked up molecules of the enemy's former body. Big-kid-tested, motherf--ker approved."
Re: What If...the Watergate burglary was NOT buste [Re: long_lost_corleone] #416177
07/16/07 02:06 PM
07/16/07 02:06 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso Offline
Consigliere to the Stars
dontomasso  Offline
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Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
Great post.

Nixon had his fingers in a lot of pies, and Watergate was only the tip of the iceberg. There was his tax evasion problems, the break in at the Ellsberg psychiatrist office, all the money laundering by Mitchell, the whole existence of the plumbers, the dirty tricks stuff....any one of these things could easily have gone public, and then the other dominoes would fall. Nixon was by no means beloved ... even by people in his own party, and if this started hitting the fan and congressmen were going to lose their seats, I think he would have gone down anyway.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: What If...the Watergate burglary was NOT buste [Re: dontomasso] #416206
07/16/07 03:00 PM
07/16/07 03:00 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,096
California
DonColletti Offline
RIP :(
DonColletti  Offline
RIP :(
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California
Everyone forgot about Forrest Gump. He was the one that called it in anyways.


His whole life was a million to one shot
Re: What If...the Watergate burglary was NOT buste [Re: DonColletti] #416208
07/16/07 03:02 PM
07/16/07 03:02 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
pizzaboy Offline
The Fuckin Doctor
pizzaboy  Offline
The Fuckin Doctor

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Throggs Neck
Archie and Meathead would've had alot less to talk about.


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: What If...the Watergate burglary was NOT buste [Re: pizzaboy] #416350
07/16/07 08:26 PM
07/16/07 08:26 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 13,145
East Tennessee
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ronnierocketAGO Offline OP
ronnierocketAGO  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 13,145
East Tennessee
 Originally Posted By: pizzaboy
Archie and Meathead would've had alot less to talk about.



Why? Archie would still call Rob Reiner a stupid hippie Pollack Catholic Meathead.

Re: What If...the Watergate burglary was NOT buste [Re: ronnierocketAGO] #417107
07/18/07 05:30 PM
07/18/07 05:30 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,762
Anytown, USA
goombah Offline
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Posts: 6,762
Anytown, USA
Anybody who is interested in further details about Watergate should read "The Final Days" by Woodward & Bernstein. It's as good as "All the President's Men," IMO. Much more detailed and focused on Nixon's last 12-18 months in office.

I agree with Dontomasso - if it wasn't the break-in, it would have been something else that undid Nixon. He was beyond paranoid. I mean, the guy had one of the largest margins for re-election in our nation's history (1972 election) and the man sulked for days that the victory was not decisive enough. He was always stung by the 1960 loss to Kennedy and became obsessed with destroying his opponents in any way possible during the rest of his political career.



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