Vito and Michael conversation post Santino whack... Tom explains to Vito.


Ok...
Sonny gets whacked.
Tom tells Vito.
Michael is brought bad news in Italy.


So... I assume at some point Vito asks Tom "what happened and how"
Tom says "Sonny was called about another Connie beatdown and he stormed out of house" THEN he was ambushed.

Vito is thinking??? Carlo? right away?

Michael talks to Vito months later? Vito tells Michael about Carlo and his "farse"?? Michael figures it out? Vito and Michael figure it out? ??

Tom knew right away. He was the first one to suspect Carlo. The book goes a bit deeper into this situation regarding Tom getting the news and then calling up Carlo about it. Tom was an excellent consigliere in that situation because he took control of the whole situation before it got worse. His phone conversation with Carlo kept things in check.

Can you please "amplify" your answer? Expand on it?
Thank you

I wonder if Michael and Vito paid too high a price in announcing that Carlo would be Michael's "right hand man" in Vegas. Surely Tessio and Clemenza also knew it was Carlo who set Sonny up, and I also know Michael was keeping Carlo "closer" and also trying to appear weak. But still to Tessio and Clemenza such a clearly boneheaded move would indicate the family was coming off the tracks, and thus the "smart thing to do" would be to betray the family. Why then did Michael have to go out of his way to promote Carlo? Couldn't they have kept him in check some other way? Perhaps a private meeting with Hagen who promises him something important after the baptism?

I remember someone posting on the boards a little while back that Vito and Michael wanted it to look like the family "was coming off the tracks" to test the loyalty of Tess & Clem

Tom called Carlo a few minutes after learning about Sonny's death before even telling anyone else in the family.

What he did in that conversation was to let Carlo know that he was, as the novel says, "a hair away from death." Yet he did so without uttering a threat to Carlo. Instead he almost made Carlo feel that he would protect him and make things straight with the others on his behalf. He got the message across to Carlo and in a sense took control over Carlo, so as to keep him in check.

Wow... sounds weak... glad they left it out. Maybe it reads better(in full).

I beleive that announcement of Carlo being Michael's right hand man had a triple purpose to it.

As you said, it made Carlo feel more comfortable and removed any fears that he may have had about losing his life.

It served as a test of loyalty for both Tessio, Clemenza and their men.

And I'm sure that once Carlo was told this news, he was on the phone with Barzini's people telling them that he was "now on the inside" and could be more useful. It was Michael and Vito's way of getting word, through Carlo, to their enemies, that the Caporegimes were not happy. That Tessio was losing faith in The Family. There is no doubt in my mind that Carlo was still working with Barzini's people and that he delivered this news to them. And there was no doubt in Michael's mind either that Carlo was still working with Barzini or Tattaglia and would deliver this news to them.

Sounds weak? If anything it gives you a much better understanding as to how Tom took control and handled the Carlo situation and that Tom was the one who knew that Carlo had set up Sonny.

Perhaps you need to read the book.

Its confusing. Tom alerted Carlo that he was almost a dead man.... then Michael promotes him?

Throw a red flag up for anyone? uh, like Carlo??

I am going to read the book... per the gbb'ers advice... but still sound weak... Tom knows that Carlo help set up Sonny and had him killed... how did he handle situation with phone call?

It's not confusing. GO back and re-read the above posts and read the book.

I think you are correct DC, but I think Michael knew that it was Barzini, and not Tattaglia or Barzini. I realize that Michael later asks Carlo which on e approached you, but I think he already knew the answer. Michael phrased that question to Carlo the way you would phrase a cross esamination question..the admission of guilt is planted in the question itself, and the answer doesnt really matter.

Scarfather,

Don Cardi hardly needs my intervention, he's one of the most Godfather savvy people I've ever known, but I really think you NEED TO read the book.

Please don't take this the wrong way, you seem like a nice guy and a huge fan of the trilogy. It's just that by not reading the book you're cheating yourself.

PB

And not understanding what we are trying to explain to you.

Read slow.

Mouth the words if you have to.

LMAO....(I am laughing so hard that my eyes are tearing up)- I dont take the responses of... "go read the book" or "search for this and that" the wrong way.... I just enjoy talking about it on a bulletin board. I have searched for other godfather forums... this one is tops... promoting chat/debate = a good thing, no?


As for Don Cardi being one of the most GF Savy people.... GREAT... thats why I am asking!!!!!!!!!

There is no question that you've brought up a good question that has provoked some really enjoyable debate. And I don't mind at all trying to answer your questions. In fact I enjoy it. But you have this habit of making these quick replies that translate to me that you sometimes do not read the posts being made, trying to answer your questions, before posting your replies!

R-E-A-D

S-L-O-W-L-Y

Like this: "Don Corleone, I am honored and grateful....Don Corleone...Don Corleone."

Scarfather, Scarfather, what did any one here do to earn such disrespect. You come to the boards on the day we should all be working and you dont think to ask for friendship. I can't remember the last time you invited anyone for coffee, even though we have been here longer.

Actually DC... I did read the whole response post from you.

My question still is: How does Tom calling Carlo get control of the situation? What did Tom do or say that was so great?

I should take a page out of Michael's book and have the heads of the 5 families on this board whacked

Err... that was a joke...


Oh.... it seems to be common practice to make fun of posters for questioning contents of posts or threads?... Lets just say... if posters(that have been here longer) are prepared to dish it out.. they should be prepared to get it back.

So..would Vito have figured all of this out w/o the help of Tom?

Is Tom's insight the reason that the Don knew that 'It was Barzini all along."

Vito would have surely figured this out w/o the help of Tom...right?

There you go.. .asking more questions.... dont you know that the existing, long time members of this board dont like that? They actually would rather tell you where to find the info or make fun of you than talk about it. Get with the program will you.

The mods generally answer ?'s in a VERY timely manner. Give em' a break.

BTW-You altered my quote and added smileys that were not originally in my post.

You have been noted/reported to the proper officials.. I'm not into that kinda stuff.

I was wondering what happened to those smiley's... must have hit the mouse... they were supposed to go in MY post.

I believe that Vito would have figured it all out without the help of Tom.

My point to Scarfather was that Tom was smart enough to figure it out himself first and take the proper steps to insure that Carlo felt safe and protected by him. He needed to keep Carlo in check so that he could protect Connie by having Carlo confident enough to move her into the mall. With Santino now gone and Tom the Consigliere, he had to secure the safety of Connie and at the same time prevent Carlo from doing something else that could possibly hurt the family in one way or another. He took care of this before he went to inform the Don about Sonny's death. Bottom line is that Tom really was the first one to figure out that it was Carlo who set Santino up for the hit. Doesn't mean that Vito wouldn't have figured this out on his own, but I was just answering Scarfather's original question.

Of course it was NOT Tom's insight that made the Don know that it was Barzini all along. It's the opposite because Tom says to him "you mean Tattaglia." Remember?

You have a long way to go before you can even consider being in the same class as a guy like ICE.

The long time members of this board will always go out of their way to answer questions and elobarate on their answers. I think that I've gone out of my way to try and answer your questions.

Now if learn to show some respect, maybe you'll get it back.

DC answered this question definitively.
By seeming to give Carlo a pass, and even promoting him to "right hand man in Nevada," Vito and later Michael were practicing the time-honored strategy of "keep your friends close and your enemies closer."
Of course they (and Tom) knew that Carlo was involved (at the minimum) in Sonny's assassination. Perhaps (as has been posted in earlier threads on this subject) Vito couldn't bring himself to order the death of his daughter's husband and his grandchild's father. But Michael was signaling Tessio, Clemenza--and especially Barzini--that he was either too dumb to figure out that Carlo was the culprit, or too weak to act--or both. It was, as DC said, a test of loyalty to T&C, and a way to keep Barzini relaxed--and off guard.

Scarfather,

Go to your room!!