While watching the Saga last night I came upon the Geary / Michael meeting in Tahoe.

Geary tells Michael that he understands that the Corleones are about to make a move to take over the Tropicala. Mike turns and looks at Tom, and both seem to have this confused look on their faces, as if saying to each other " How did he find this out?"

How did Geary know that The Corleones were about to move Klingman out and take over the Tropicala?

Did this information come from the Roth camp, possibly leaked through Questadt?

Fredo blabbed.

But even if Fredo had blabbed, it was meanigless because Roth and Ola already knew that Michael was going to make a move against Klingman, and Ola came to Tahoe to give Roth's approval.

I caught that too. But Geary is a senator in Nevada after all, he should have tabs on this kind of stuff, even if Mike and Tom didn't want anyone else to know.

I think this was better explained in the alternate GF 2 script. If memory serves correctly, it is either stated or implied that Turnbull was Tom's source. I had the impression that Turnbull fed Tom some b.s. and it made Tom look bad to Michael with the misinformation.

Part of that scene is confusing to me. Why would Geary tell Mike not to contact him again, to work through Turnbull. Didn't Mike just previously tell Geary that it was Turnbull who set things up with Tom.

Also, what was Mike's point in saying "Turnbull is a good man" at that point in the conversation?

I think Geary was just making a point of telling Michael that he didn't like him and was above dealing with him personally.

Michael's "Turnbull is a good man" was merely sarcasm, in my opinion.

I think it was because Turnbull had briefed the Senator about Michael's moving Klingman out.

I also agree with the idea that Turnbull got this information from Queastat.

I believe we had a discussion about his once before, circulating around the seemingly surprised look on Michael's and Tom's faces when Geary makes his revelation.
The surprised look is not a response to Geary knowing Michael's plan, IMO. As Geary said, "The LAH-sense will be in Klingman's name." In order for Michael or his representatives to get on the license, or to get Klingman off the license, they'd have to file an application, which is a public process. And, as I've posted before, I believe Turnbull was Geary's political bagman--an intermediary between Geary and the people who need to bribe him to get his political favors.

The logic, IMO, is that Michael knew all this, and had arranged with Turnbull beforehand to bribe Geary through him in order to get on the license. If you accept that, you might conclude that the surprised look is in response not to Geary knowing that Michael was going to move Klingman out (he'd know that through Turnbull or through a public filing), but in response to Geary's saying "That will leave you with a problem..." Why should he have a problem if he'd already paid off through Turnbull? Notice that the first thing Michael says after hearing about his "problem" is, "Turnbull's a good man," which I interpret to mean, "I already took care of you through Turnbull. Why should I have a problem?"

TB I'm missing something here. If Michael had already arranged to take care of Geary through Turnbull, why would Geary meet with Michael to demand $250,00 and a piece of the action at all four hotels?

Because, as he said, "Ah intend to squeeze you. Ah don't lahk your kinda people..." He was both greedy and bigoted; and he used the bigotry to justify his greed, as when he said, "...comin' out to his clean country..."

If you saw "Casino," you'll remember somewhat the same argument when the County Commissioner (L.Q. Jones) demands that DeNiro put his useless brother in law back on the casino payroll. DeNiro refuses, and the Commish says, "You people just will never understand that you're here as guests, and that we can ship you back where you came from." That's the same sense of "ownership" (and bigotry, as in "you people") that Geary was expressing to Michael: "We own this state, you don't."

Thanks TB. Had Michael only known.... he could have worn a worsted suit and blow dried his hair.

I'm not so sure about all this. What was the "Don't contact me directly ever again" from Geary remark all about? I don't think any money exchanged hands before the meeting.

Tom probably contacted Turnbull directly and invited him to the party. Of course, Geary knew who Tom represented. Mike wanted favors and influence such as only Geary could provide. That's why he made the donation to the Univeraity. But, Geary then finds out about moving Klingman out, knows about the license procedures, and does intend to squeeze Michael in exchange for his help on the license. Maybe Turnbull had been bribed already by Tom to facilitate access to Geary. That wouldn't be unusual. Afterall, the license probably would not be the only thing Mike would want help on during Geary's term in office. Mike would have to keep bribing Turnbull everytime Mike needed the Senator's help - kind of like a broker's fee.

I see Mike's "Turnbull is a good man" comment as kind of a distraction type of statement, one that he made in order to avoid a direct reaction to Geary's statement about the Tropigala. Or it cold have been sort of a reminder to Geary that they were already doing business with Turnbull.

I think this is correct. According to the second draft of the screenplay, which I think can justifiably be appealed to here, Turnbull fed Tom a string of lies about Geary being squeamish about being bribed in a direct fashion (rather than through a "charitable donation to a cause Geary controls," as Tom puts it in the 2nd draft), so of course he and Michael were quite surprised when Geary came out swinging with his hefty demands. I'm actually inclined to think that Michael might have been under the impression that Geary's bribe money was to be a cut from the "magnificent contribution" to the university. The rest was for the purpose of polishing Michael's public image. (Notice that Geary, when speaking to the guests, doesn't say how much the check is for -- the amount of the donation to Sicily in GFIII is made explicit, and in general large donations to universities are announced, in press releases, etc., with the dollar amount specified.)

Well, he doesn't name the univesity either. That is a typical ploy by film makers who may choose not to mention an institution or it could have been that the producers couldn't get permission from one or more universities to use their name. In the same vein, sometimes film makers don't cite a a dollar amount for any number of reasons. For one, a dollar amount can become outdate (due to inflation) as time goes by.

All of that was an afterthought, so I put it in parentheses. What are your impressions of the rest of it?

Well, as I posted previously, I think that some money had already passed before the meeting between the Corleones and Geary. That would be a deposit by Mike on future favors he would request and pay for from Geary. Just as Vito had a senator in his pocket, Geary would be Mike's senator. But Geary's squeeze of Mike was probably a total surprise to everyone concerned, even Turnbull. As Geary said to Mike, "I thought we would talk alone." Sure, Mike and Geary knew about the technical problem with the license at the Tropigala and both expected some money to change hands to resolve the problem. But the "from all four hotels" comment by Geary made it clear that he was thinking outside the envelope and it was not anticipated by anyone.

It certainly was a surprise to Mike and his men, but I'm not sure about Turnbull. Geary ends the meeting by saying that Mike has to deal with Turnbull, meaning that the "squeeze" payments will go through him. So what purpose would it serve for Geary to keep Turnbull in the dark up to the meeting date, since he would have to inform him immediately afterwards that a monthly truckload of extorted cash would be coming in from the Corleones?

It would be the unskilled briberee indeed (especially at the level of US Senator) who would have payments made directly to him or her. Turnbull would have been in a position to and expecting to handle any ill-gotten gains coming the Senator's way. Just as Mike minimized the number of people who knew of his nefarious ways, Geary would have done the same. Turnbull would not have had to know about the license related dollars until the deal was made.

One thing for certain is that Geary, who later asked a question about it, didn't have much of a grip on the idea of buffas at the time.

All of the films in the trilogy went through multiple script treatments, some with radically different outcomes. While those earlier screenplays are often fascinating, what counts is what FFC intended us to see in his final cut. On that basis, I thought Michael looked surprised when Geary said that he'd have a problem taking over Klingman's license. Michael's "Turnbull is a good man" struck me not as sarcasm, but a reminde: "Hey, I thought I already took care of that through Turnbull, your bagman."
It is possible that some or all of the material about Turnbull and his relationship to the Corleones was filmed, then discarded--either in the interest of cutting the film's already prodigious length, or because the plotline was superfluous or didn't really fit. So, "Turnbull is a good man" could have been a left-over reference in a different context involving an abandonded scene or story line. I thought it flowed well as a statement of surprise.
90 cal, you may recall that, more than a year ago, an alert paisan here spotted Questadt, the Senate lawyer, sitting in a chair behind Roth in the American businessmens' meeting with Batista in Havana. That was a jolt. Questadt had no rational for being in that scene--none whatsoever. He never had a line of dialog or a face-to-face with Michael or Roth, and didn't appear again until he turned up as the inquisitor in the Senate hearing. If his appearance in Havana had been intentional, Michael would have remembered him sitting behind Roth, would have recognized him at the Senate hearing, and would never have perjured himself. I guessed at the time that Questadt must have gotten a bigger role in an earlier script treatment.

Sure enough, another paisan posted an earlier script in which Michael and Tom had dealings with Questadt before Havana. Obviously it was cut out to shorten the movie and to beef up the perjury trap factor at the Senate hearing. So, why did FFC leave Questadt in that Havana scene? A guess is that he liked the way the scene played out, couldn't film it over because it had been done on location in the Dominican Republic--and figured that nobody'd notice Questadt. He nver counted on the sharpies on this board...

Yes... even if the "Turnbull is a good man" from another set of film scenes... it seems to fit. I agree that its an indirect way of saying "I took care of that with Turnbull already"...

And another way "never tell anyone outside the family what you are "REALLY" thinking" - it meant that I already paid... but he never says "I already paid for that"... so in a court of law... he could never be convicted

Sooo...why is Geary at the party?

Who invited him?

Did Michael invite the Senator to give him the rest of that "down payment" on the Klingman Casino?


-From what I can tell it seems that Mike must have invited Geary to give him/the University that final piece of the "magnificent endowment."

-Mike/Tom must have been surprised when Geary "turned up the squeeze."

-"Turnbull is a good man.." was Mike's way of saying.."Uhm..I've already dealt w/ your man, Turnbull. The fact that you are further squeezing me is ridiculous."

Why are you asking more questions? What do you think this is? A bulletin board where people come to talk about and debate topics?? The nerve of you

Haha, I'm sure my question will be answered by at least one or MORE of the mods. (I'm laughing SOOO hard right now)

Scarfather, this is the second topic where you've basically played the same game. I'm telling you right now, cut it out. Stop polluting the topics with this childish arrogant shit. It Ends right now!

It was probably Tom who invited Geary through Turnbull. Yes, Geary would be there to share some of the spotlight over Mike's donation and it would serve as a cover for them to discuss business. As I posted above, I think Geary surprised everyone with his squeeze demand.

Yes. In addition, Geary saw an opportunity to cash in on (no pun intended) Michael's "magnificent endowment" to the state university. It had to help him politically that he was photographed with that check--as if to say that he had something to do with Michael's big donation.
Nevada politicians of that era knew that gangsters were behind the casino industry. They welcomed the gangsters because they were bringing money to the state--to say nothing of the contributions and bribes gangsters paid to the politicians. They had to be careful of being photographed with gangsters in public. But, Michael's donation to the university gave Geary a gold-plated opportunity to meet with Michael, safely. If a political opponent accused him of being too close to Michael, a known Mafia boss, Geary would have said, "I was there to accept a big donation to the state university, not to schmooze a gangster."