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Why does Tom suspect Clemenza? #399236
06/08/07 08:50 AM
06/08/07 08:50 AM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 773
Pittsburgh, PA
The Last Woltz Offline OP
Underboss
The Last Woltz  Offline OP
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After Tessio approaches Mike at the funeral, Tom says he always thought it would have been Clemenza.

While Clemenza was briefly suspected after the Don is shot, overall it always seemed clear to me that Clemenza is more loyal, less ambitious and less intelligent than Tessio.

So why does Tom think Clemenza would be the traitor?


"A man in my position cannot afford to be made to look ridiculous!"
Re: Why does Tom suspect Clemenza? [Re: The Last Woltz] #399241
06/08/07 09:22 AM
06/08/07 09:22 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,762
Anytown, USA
goombah Offline
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Anytown, USA
I think it stems from the meeting when Michael asked Tessio & Clemenza to be patient. Clemenza asks Vito for permission to form his own family and leave the Corleones. This request showed that Clemenza didn't believe that Michael would be able to solidify the family. With a weakened Corleone family, Michael, Vito & Tom correctly assume that one or more of the rival families would reach out to either/both Clemenza & Tessio.

Tom felt it would be Clemenza based upon Clemenza's resistance to Michael's proposal. To a lesser degree, I think Tessio did a much better job of masking his emotions overall. Clemenza was more apt to "wear his heart on his sleeve" and revealed his true feelings in the meeting with Michael, Vito & Tom.

Re: Why does Tom suspect Clemenza? [Re: The Last Woltz] #399248
06/08/07 10:12 AM
06/08/07 10:12 AM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,508
AZ
Turnbull Offline
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Michael answered your question when he replied: "Tessio was always smaerter." He meant that he thought Tessio would have been smart enough to see through Michael's subterfuge of appearing weak to test his subordinates' loyalty, while Clemenza, presumably less smart, would have jumped ship. Of course the reverse happened.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Why does Tom suspect Clemenza? [Re: Turnbull] #399269
06/08/07 10:25 AM
06/08/07 10:25 AM
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Posts: 15,019
Texas
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olivant Offline
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Texas
There's only two capos, two people to suspect. If he would have suspected Tessio, the same question arises.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Why does Tom suspect Clemenza? [Re: Turnbull] #399402
06/08/07 04:56 PM
06/08/07 04:56 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238
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Don Cardi Offline
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When Tom says that he always thought that it would have been Clemenza, Michael's reply is "It's the smart move" followed by "Tessio was always smarter."

I believe that Michael's saying that it was the smart move means that because of the way that the Corleone's made themselves appear to be weakened and declining in power, that anyone not privy to being part of the facade the Corleone's put on, would realize that the power was now with the Barzini family and that in order to survive would have to make a deal with the Barzinis That would be the smart move and Tessio was always smarter.


That's my interpretation of what Michael meant.



Don Cardi cool

Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.




Re: Why does Tom suspect Clemenza? [Re: Don Cardi] #399899
06/10/07 01:17 PM
06/10/07 01:17 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 385
Tampa, FL
waynethegame Offline
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waynethegame  Offline
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I agree with Don Cardi. I feel that what Michael meant by "Tessio was always smarter." is basically "Tessio would think we're going to lose the war and jump ship. Clemenza would be too loyal to think we could lose, and will stay to the end."


Wayne

"Finance is a gun. Politics is knowing when to pull the trigger."
Don Lucchesi
Re: Why does Tom suspect Clemenza? [Re: waynethegame] #400355
06/11/07 04:42 AM
06/11/07 04:42 AM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,539
My own world.
whisper Offline
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whisper  Offline
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My own world.
Clemenza was a champion caporegime!!Loyal to the end.


The hero and the coward both feel the same thing, but the hero uses his fear, projects it onto his opponent, while the coward runs. It's the same thing, fear, but it's what you do with it that matters. Cus D'Amato
Re: Why does Tom suspect Clemenza? [Re: whisper] #400454
06/11/07 09:07 AM
06/11/07 09:07 AM
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Posts: 168
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wtwt5237 Offline
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wtwt5237  Offline
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Made Member
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Clemenza was suspected all from the start of the novel. The novel has explained it clearly enough: clemenza was reckless sometimes.....


One has only one destiny, he cannot choose it.
Re: Why does Tom suspect Clemenza? [Re: Don Cardi] #400612
06/11/07 03:08 PM
06/11/07 03:08 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso Offline
Consigliere to the Stars
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With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
 Originally Posted By: Don Cardi


When Tom says that he always thought that it would have been Clemenza, Michael's reply is "It's the smart move" followed by "Tessio was always smarter."




Exactly right DC.

Clemenza was always being suspected of being a traitor...they though he helped Paulie sell out Vito.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: Why does Tom suspect Clemenza? [Re: wtwt5237] #400625
06/11/07 03:35 PM
06/11/07 03:35 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238
The Ravenite Social Club
Don Cardi Offline
Caporegime
Don Cardi  Offline
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Posts: 18,238
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 Originally Posted By: wtwt5237
clemenza was reckless sometimes.....




Is that why when Vito told Tom to give the job (Bonasera's daughter's assailants) to someone reliable, someone that won't get carried away, Tom gave it to Clemenza?



Don Cardi cool

Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.




Re: Why does Tom suspect Clemenza? [Re: Don Cardi] #400756
06/11/07 10:09 PM
06/11/07 10:09 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,539
My own world.
whisper Offline
Underboss
whisper  Offline
Underboss
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,539
My own world.
 Originally Posted By: Don Cardi
 Originally Posted By: wtwt5237
clemenza was reckless sometimes.....




Is that why when Vito told Tom to give the job (Bonasera's daughter's assailants) to someone reliable, someone that won't get carried away, Tom gave it to Clemenza?









































































































































Exactly.Clemenza was loyal.You can see the love he had for the family.Also how he plays a sought of second father figure to Michael.Like when he's telling him what to do with Sollozzo and Mccluskey and even when hes joking around with him when he gets off the phone with Kay.

Last edited by whisper the don from down under; 06/11/07 10:11 PM.

The hero and the coward both feel the same thing, but the hero uses his fear, projects it onto his opponent, while the coward runs. It's the same thing, fear, but it's what you do with it that matters. Cus D'Amato
Re: Why does Tom suspect Clemenza? [Re: whisper] #401197
06/12/07 07:30 PM
06/12/07 07:30 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,019
Texas
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olivant Offline
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,019
Texas
"It was a fat move. Clemenza was always fatter."


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."

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