After the Godfather II, some dates don't seem to match. Starting with the Don (Vito). He looks to be an old man of about 70, but according to the flashback sequences, we know he was 9 when he arrived at Ellis Island in 1901. Michael didn't eliminate the other heads of the five families until 1950 (according to the senate hearing) after his father's death. So at best, Don Vito would've been 58 years old. At Anthony's communion celebration in 1958, Kay tells Michael he promised that the "family" would be "legitimate in 5 years...that was 7 years ago". That would make the year 1951 but that can't be right since they were already married, with Anthony(3) when Don Vito died. Michael made that statement to her after his return from Sicily in what had to be 1949. We know this because Michael killed Sollozzo and McCluskey in 1947 and had to leave for at least a year. But when he saw Kay again for the first time, he told her he'd been back, "a year, maybe more, I think." Just a little something to think about...

Yes Michael C the timeline in GFI & II can be confusing and I don't think it matches up 100%. It is generally accepted that Vito was born on 7th Dec.1892 (though I believe that the tombstone in GFI gives a different date??). This would make him 53 years old at the beginning of the film, as the book gives the date of Connie's wedding as the last Saturday in August 1945. I agree he looks much older but he had a very tough upbringing and maybe it's beginning to tell on him! And Fredo is supposed to be 26 at the wedding!! However GFII opens in 1901 supposedly with Vito nine years old, yet he would not have been nine until 7th Dec 1901. Now the opening action could have taken place in December, I suppose, but I think the timeline it a little bit out here. More likely it is 1902 when the film opens. Your assertion that the assassination of the Barzini & Co took place in 1950, cannot be right. If we accept that in GFII, it is 1958 when Anthony makes his first communion, then Anthony must have been born (probably) in 1951. Since he is playing with Vito when Vito has the fatal stroke/heart attack, and he looks about three or four, then Vito must have died in approx. 1954/1955, making him 63 or 64. So in my opinion, Michael probably wiped out Barzini & Co in 1954 or 1955. There's probably a book in trying to work out the timeline of the films!! Another thing to consider is that GFIII opens in 1979. This would make Anthony 28. Bit old for a law student????

you mean 1891.

someone on this board (sorry I forgot who, but you deserve to be credited) did the math:

in 1901, young Vito at the age of nine years old came to Ellis Island on the boat. this was obviously not in wintertime, so the winter (December) of 1901 would still come. That would be his 10th birthday.

probably the only mistake is in fact the Senate hearing saying "1950"... if you move that up about five years, Senza Mama's story would be wright.

it can't be 1902 when the films opens, nor can Anthony's communion be in any other year: THE ONSCREEN TEXTS SAY 1901 AND 1958...

there's a good timeline on J Geoff's site about the birth dates of all characters, including Fredo's (1919) which would make him 26 at the wedding. What's wrong with that?

What much more confusing is, that in the novel, Vito's already about eleven or twelve when he emigrates and this rises a lot of questions:

was born earlier (1888)? or did he go to the US later (1903)? and the wedding with Carmella would move up a couple of years, as would the birth of Sonny and Tom (1916 according to J Geoff, while in the novel they are around 35 yrs old at Connie's wedding>1910!)...

I've thought about all of these minor 'errors' a lot, but just don't see to get a good view.

then I decided to extract the movie from the novel, them being completely different works of art.

but it's still sad that, even with Puzo nearby, the movie couldn't follow all of the novel's details (remember Vincent Mancini?)...

Apologies Michael C, it is not your assertion that the other Dons were wiped out in 1950. It is Senator Kane's in GFII. This surely is a script error that slipped through the net??

OK Pherdy, it makes sense if you move Vito's birth to 1891. I was going by a couple of other timelines I found which gave Vito and Roth born in the same year (1892). But I'm prepared to accept Geoff's as "definitive". My point about Fredo being 26 was that John Cazale loked older that 26, that's all. Couple of other little things, at the first communion party in GFII does someone say that Connie has been divorced twice?? If so that has happened in three years...which I suppose is possible. Michael says that her oldest boy has been in trouble with the police in Reno, but he could not be more than 10...again it is possible he's a bit wild. Also the directions for the script give te date as Fall 1958 but describe Anthony as nine making his birth 1949. But I was brought up a Catholic myself and first communion where I grew up always took place at age 7.

Thats not entirely true. The Senator didn't state that the other Dons were killed in 1950, but rather asked Michael if that was the year he devised the plan to kill them.

CHAIRMAN
Is it true that in -- in the year 1950 you devised the murder of the heads of the so-called five families in New York. Who assume and consolidate your nefarious power.

We know that Vito died July 29, 1955, and the killings of the other dons took place a short time afterwards, so they definitely were killed in 1955. The question of when the plan to kill them was made cannot be answered (beyond guessing it was from about 1948, when Mike returned from Sicily, to early 1955).

Hyman Roth was born in 1891, also. Simple math... he was celebrating his 67th birthday in Havana (serving cake to the other mob guys) in 1958. The website's timeline needs to be changed.

The killings took place in early 1946, a few days/weeks after Vito was shot (December 21, 1945).

Connie's boy could just as well be 12 (they were married in 1945, remember) and at twelve, you sure can get arrested I think.

If little Anthony was 7 in 1958, because First Communions are held at the age of seven, then the idea of him being born in 1951 (which I think was yours, right?) could be true. I ask you where you get the fact he's supposed to be NINE from? Is that in the movie?

You say yourself Anthony is 3 when Vito died (which is 1955), so he could just as well be born in 1951/52 shortly after Mike and Kay married

Roth has to be at least 5 years younger than Vito. Think of the deleted scene on the DVD, and in the Epic/Saga/Trilogy, where Clemenza introduces Hyman Sulchowsky to Mr Corleone. He's much younger.

sounds reasonable at first GodYankee...

, but why should he be younger only if he sais "Mr.Corleone" and shit... he could be just as old. the Hyman Zuchovsky actor looked younger than Robert DeNiro...that's all. no need for the two characters two differ a lot in age (but you could be wright, I guess all of you could, since Roth isn't in the DVD timeline, which seem to be quite official to the movie trilogy)

These timeline anomalies are vexing, but I guess they're part of the freight that's carried in this immensely long trilogy, where moving from era to era, movie to movie, can cause inconsistencies:
--Vito's date are irrefutably chiseled in his tombstone.
--The Great Five Families Massacre occurred in 1955 shortly after Vito died. Note Clemenza's '55 Cadillac, which he drives (with a flowerbox containing his shotgun) to kill Stracchi in the elevator.
--Hyman Roth was born in 1891 because, as his Havana wedding cake shows, he's 67 in December 1958. (In a deleted scene from GFII that takes place around 1920, Clemenza recruits the teenage Roth, who looks to be about 10 years younger than Vito. Vito's age-appearance would have been right for a guy born in 1892, but Roth's wouldn't have been. FFC simply adjusted reality to make Roth a disciple of Vito. Perhaps the scene was deleted because, in the rest of GFII, Roth speaks of Vito as a partner and contemporary.)
--The Don was shot shortly before Xmas 1945. Sollozzo and McCluskey were shot either shortly before or after New Year's Day, 1946 (attest the "Happy New Year" banner hung in the rear of Louis Restaurant).
--The dates start to get less definitive after this. Many paisani place the subsequent action in the 1949-51 time frame because, in the scene where Sonny beats up Carlo, we see a tattered "Dewey for President" poster. Since Dewey ran for President in '48, 1949 or later seems logical for Connie's pregnancy, Sonny's beating of Carlo, Michael and Apollonia, etc. BUT: Dewey also ran for President in '44, so the poster could have been left over from that campaign. That would place the action in 1946, which is what I believe. Other evidence: If Connie were pregnant with Victor in '46, he'd have been 12 in '58, old enough to be "arrested for some petty theft..." We see GI's in a jeep in Sicily--right for Allied occupation in '46, wrong for '49 or later. In the scene where Michael woos Kay in New Hampshire, his car is a '47 Cad and we see a '47 Ford woodie station wagen in the background. These cars certainly could have been in use in '50 or '51, but FFC usually selected new or nearly new cars in the Trilogy. Yes, Anthony would have been (and looked) seven years old for his First Communion in '58. That could be because the Michael/Kay New Hampshire scene was set in '50 or '51--or because it was really set in '47, and Michael and Kay either decided not to have kids right away, or maybe had trouble conceiving.

at first I thought that would be okay, if he was 28...but consider this:

Mary's supposed to be 26 and Anthony 28. Anthony is an adult for ten years, and he is quitting (so there for he has done only a couple of years) Law School. Mary seems to have no job at all, except for being Michael's cover to his foundation.

also, she runs and cries and acts like a 14 year old on the Wedding. In fact, Mike and Kay treat them like rebellious teens all through the movie.

You're right Senza Mama, they are way older then we seem to must believe from the movie.

Btw, Sofia Coppola was 18 or 19 when she played a 26 year old. Usually in Hollywood, it's the other way around.

I guess we just have to accept that some of GF is internally inconsistent. So be it. The story, the greater truths, is more important.

That said: The inconsistency on the Don's birthdate just plain can't be resolved. The tombstone says one thing, the birthday party another.

As for the Dewey poster, he also ran for re-election as governor of New York in `46 and I think in `50 as well. I always liked the irony of that little touch, Dewey made his reputation busting mobsters like Lucky Luciano...

Great point, Tom! I hadn't made the connection between the Dewey poster and Sonny before.

Its hard to see in the movie, but if you look at a still photo from Sonny's beating Carlo scene you can see the posters are from a presidential election.

Very impressive where you guys looking at in the GF movies.

I think it was being kicked around since just after Don Corleone was shot. There is a scene where Clemenza, Tessio, Sonny, Tom and Mike are sitting around and everyone is talking all at once. If you listen carefully you hear Clemenza reading names from a written list; he says:
"That's a lot of bad blood; Solozzo, Phillip Tataglia, Bruno Tataglia, Carbone ..."
to which Mike responds: "are you gonna kill all those guys?"
(Sonny then says "Mikey, keep out of this")

Though Mike is not "devising" the plan at that time, he does become aware of the possabilities.

That might be the earliest that any such plan is discussed.

It probably was, good thinking TonyD!!!!

before that, Michael wouldn't even consider these kind of options, not wanting to have any to do with his fathers business....after Vito got shot, something changed inside of Michael, resulting in all greatness the Godfather novel/movie(s) provided us. The scene you're referring to might as well be a first indication of it all...

Don't have stills handy, it probably does say "for President." Just checked and paused the DVDs and I just see "Thomas E. DEWEY" without the office.

Just checked a political list: Dewey was elected governor in 42, 46, and 50.

It's amazing the amount of obvious chronological errors the editors managed to miss. But you can't possibly let that effect your enjoyment of the film.

you're right there, mate!