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Who was Michael's "Consiglieri?" #386735
04/19/07 12:52 PM
04/19/07 12:52 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 246
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Buttmunker Offline OP
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Throughout Part II, I always figured Al Neri was Michael's consiglieri, but it seems that Neri was only Michael's enforcer. Same thing with Rocco Lampone.

Tom was only the legal eagle of the Family, so he wasn't.

Did Michael have one? Or did he think he was his own best council?

Re: Who was Michael's "Consiglieri?" [Re: Buttmunker] #386739
04/19/07 01:17 PM
04/19/07 01:17 PM
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Posts: 18,238
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Don Cardi Offline
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Don Cardi  Offline
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Tom was his consiglieri when it was "convenient" for Michael and his plans. And then was his "legal eagle" when it was convenient for his plans.

In other words it all depended on what situation Michael found himself in.



"Tom Hagen's no longer Consiglieri -- He's gonna be our lawyer in Vegas. That's no reflection on Tom, but that's the way I want it.... You're not a wartime Consiglieri, Tom. Things may get rough with the move we're trying..... You're out, Tom."


" ...it's, because I admire you and I love you that I kept things secret from you. That's why at his moment you're the only one I completely trust.Yeah -- there's a lot I can't tell you -- and I now that's upset you in the past...... You're gonna take over -- you're gonna be the Don. If what I think has happened has happened, I'm gonna leave here tonight. I give you complete power, TOM -- over FREDO and his men, ROCCO, NERI, everyone. I am trusting you with the lives of my wife and my children -- the future of this family...."

"I thought you were goin' to tell me that -- you were going to move your family to Vegas -- and that you'd been offered the vice-presidency of the house and hotels there I thought you were goin' to tell me that."



It just goes to show you the cold, manipulative, using egotist Michael had really become.





Don Cardi cool

Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.




Re: Who was Michael's "Consiglieri?" [Re: Don Cardi] #386832
04/19/07 05:52 PM
04/19/07 05:52 PM
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olivant Offline
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Michael never had an official Consigliere. As DC points out, he sought counsel when he wanted it.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Who was Michael's "Consiglieri?" [Re: olivant] #387073
04/20/07 03:15 PM
04/20/07 03:15 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
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Turnbull Offline
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Michael's hyper-controlling nature wouldn't permit anyone to be his consigliere. As DC said, he used Tom when it was convenient, but even when it was convenient, Tom wasn't a real consigliere.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Who was Michael's "Consiglieri?" [Re: Turnbull] #387277
04/21/07 04:14 AM
04/21/07 04:14 AM
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wtwt5237 Offline
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We can see a big board in the court scene in GF2, on which Mike was entitled boss,Fredo underboss and Tom consigliere. So at least in the official definition Tom is the consigliere.


One has only one destiny, he cannot choose it.
Re: Who was Michael's "Consiglieri?" [Re: wtwt5237] #387279
04/21/07 04:44 AM
04/21/07 04:44 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 22,902
New York
SC Offline
Consigliere
SC  Offline
Consigliere

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 22,902
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 Originally Posted By: wtwt5237
We can see a big board in the court scene in GF2, on which Mike was entitled boss,Fredo underboss and Tom consigliere. So at least in the official definition Tom is the consigliere.


The "official definition"???? The information on the chart is the information that the government had... it doesn't necessarily mean that it was correct. Fredo as the underboss???


.
Re: Who was Michael's "Consiglieri?" [Re: SC] #387305
04/21/07 10:05 AM
04/21/07 10:05 AM
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Double-J Offline
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According to the "The Godfather" game by Electronic Arts (which FFC despises, btw), it specifically has a scene where Michael tells the player that Tom is out as consigliere, and Al Neri is the new consigliere...for whatever that's worth.



Re: Who was Michael's "Consiglieri?" [Re: Double-J] #387306
04/21/07 10:07 AM
04/21/07 10:07 AM
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Don Cardi Offline
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Don Cardi  Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Double-J
According to the "The Godfather" game by Electronic Arts (which FFC despises, btw), it specifically has a scene where Michael tells the player that Tom is out as consigliere, and Al Neri is the new consigliere...for whatever that's worth.


..and that you are now a big shot in the Corleone family. For whatever that's worth.

The game has absolutely no siginificance whatsoever to the movie. ;\)



Don Cardi cool

Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.




Re: Who was Michael's "Consiglieri?" [Re: Don Cardi] #387732
04/23/07 10:16 AM
04/23/07 10:16 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso Offline
Consigliere to the Stars
dontomasso  Offline
Consigliere to the Stars

Joined: Feb 2005
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With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
After watching the butchered version on Spike yesterday I had an epiphany about this nagging question. Thea answer is this: Tom remained consigliere through GFII but in title only. Michael, who trusted no one would never concentrate too much power in anyone's hands. He gave Tom that song and dance about how he had kept things form him out of respect, wehich we all agree was manipulative. Still at that point I think Tom was the official consigliere. What Michael really did, however is allow the title to remain, but he divested it of much of its power.

Compare this, for example to most Secretaries of State in government. They retain the title, which carries with it the implication that he or she is the presidents top foreign policy advisor, when in fact more often than not the chief foreign policy advisor is on the white house staff.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: Who was Michael's "Consiglieri?" [Re: dontomasso] #387791
04/23/07 01:40 PM
04/23/07 01:40 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
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ScarFather Offline
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ScarFather  Offline
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 Originally Posted By: dontomasso
After watching the butchered version on Spike yesterday I had an epiphany about this nagging question. Thea answer is this: Tom remained consigliere through GFII but in title only. Michael, who trusted no one would never concentrate too much power in anyone's hands. He gave Tom that song and dance about how he had kept things form him out of respect, wehich we all agree was manipulative. Still at that point I think Tom was the official consigliere. What Michael really did, however is allow the title to remain, but he divested it of much of its power.

Compare this, for example to most Secretaries of State in government. They retain the title, which carries with it the implication that he or she is the presidents top foreign policy advisor, when in fact more often than not the chief foreign policy advisor is on the white house staff.


While I agree with most of what you wrote... I think there was more too it... Michael wanted to protect Tom(keep him alive). Michael wanted to keep Tom from being kidnapped to a sitdown and perhaps being a liability. They offered Fredo the Don-ship of the Corleone family if he helped Roth and Ola... they offered Tom VP of Hotels... all ploys to against Michael.

Michael was just keeping Tom on his toes. Letting him know that he is ON TOP OF ALL THINGS.


"What I want.... whats most important to me... is that I have a guarantee" - Train approaches.... Bang! Bang! Bang!

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