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Re: When does Michael start to change?
[Re: ScarFather]
#387786
04/23/07 01:20 PM
04/23/07 01:20 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 295
ScarFather
OP
Capo
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OP
Capo
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 295
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Wow... great stuff... enjoyed reading the responses...
I think it was a few things as well...
1. I'm with you now pop. 2. Watching Sonny as Don... he saw Sonny's inability to be reasonable as a weakness... not to mention his temper. Sonny - more muscle, common mafia hood(I got that from Kay LOL) than DON 3. I believe Michael in GF3 when he says he tried to protect the family from the horrors of the world. He was IMO. The shooting at him and Kay in their bed was something he could not avoid... Fredo.. too close... betrayal. Michael could never see that coming. Which is why he killed him... because it could have happened again and Michael could not see it coming.
"What I want.... whats most important to me... is that I have a guarantee" - Train approaches.... Bang! Bang! Bang!
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Re: When does Michael start to change?
[Re: ScarFather]
#389746
05/01/07 11:35 AM
05/01/07 11:35 AM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 276 Huntsville, AL
FrankWhite
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 276
Huntsville, AL
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I just had a conversation with a counterpart, and he had some very interesting (to me at least) insight... he believes that we start to see Michael's "morph" when he reads the newspaper about his father's shooting. I can definately see this view. Thoughts???
"From now on, nothing goes down unless I'm involved. No blackjack no dope deals, no nothing. A nickel bag gets sold in the park, I want in. You guys got fat while everybody starved on the street. Now it's my turn." (King of New York)
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Re: When does Michael start to change?
[Re: ScarFather]
#390015
05/02/07 11:01 AM
05/02/07 11:01 AM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 45
donjack
Wiseguy
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Wiseguy
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 45
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Re: When does Michael start to change?
[Re: donjack]
#390017
05/02/07 11:10 AM
05/02/07 11:10 AM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238 The Ravenite Social Club
Don Cardi
Caporegime
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Caporegime
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238
The Ravenite Social Club
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Don Cardi Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.
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Re: When does Michael start to change?
[Re: FrankWhite]
#391436
05/07/07 09:27 PM
05/07/07 09:27 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 295
ScarFather
OP
Capo
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OP
Capo
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 295
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I just had a conversation with a counterpart, and he had some very interesting (to me at least) insight... he believes that we start to see Michael's "morph" when he reads the newspaper about his father's shooting. I can definately see this view. Thoughts??? My thoughts are.... you see "those eyes" when he tells Kay about Luca and the Bandleader... you do I swear LOL
"What I want.... whats most important to me... is that I have a guarantee" - Train approaches.... Bang! Bang! Bang!
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Re: When does Michael start to change?
[Re: ScarFather]
#391548
05/08/07 10:39 AM
05/08/07 10:39 AM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 276 Huntsville, AL
FrankWhite
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 276
Huntsville, AL
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I just had a conversation with a counterpart, and he had some very interesting (to me at least) insight... he believes that we start to see Michael's "morph" when he reads the newspaper about his father's shooting. I can definately see this view. Thoughts??? My thoughts are.... you see "those eyes" when he tells Kay about Luca and the Bandleader... you do I swear LOL I really believe the eyes you see in this scene are eyes of embarrassment/shame.
"From now on, nothing goes down unless I'm involved. No blackjack no dope deals, no nothing. A nickel bag gets sold in the park, I want in. You guys got fat while everybody starved on the street. Now it's my turn." (King of New York)
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Re: When does Michael start to change?
[Re: Don Cardi]
#391552
05/08/07 11:15 AM
05/08/07 11:15 AM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 276 Huntsville, AL
FrankWhite
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 276
Huntsville, AL
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oh, DC, I think you misunderstood. I was talking about the look when he was telling Kay of Luca and the bandleader. the good ol' "My family... not me" scene.
"From now on, nothing goes down unless I'm involved. No blackjack no dope deals, no nothing. A nickel bag gets sold in the park, I want in. You guys got fat while everybody starved on the street. Now it's my turn." (King of New York)
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Re: When does Michael start to change?
[Re: Don Cardi]
#391557
05/08/07 11:30 AM
05/08/07 11:30 AM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 276 Huntsville, AL
FrankWhite
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 276
Huntsville, AL
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Oh ok... no problem. Good point as well. He may have, very well, been trying to impress Kay at that point. Heck, i think this was impressive to him, as well. Before this time, it's clear taht Mike was rebelling against the family completely (being a soldier, getting with Kay, etc.). So... hmmmm... could this, very well, have been when Mike starts to change as ScarFather mentioned??? interesting POV
"From now on, nothing goes down unless I'm involved. No blackjack no dope deals, no nothing. A nickel bag gets sold in the park, I want in. You guys got fat while everybody starved on the street. Now it's my turn." (King of New York)
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Re: When does Michael start to change?
[Re: FrankWhite]
#391560
05/08/07 11:41 AM
05/08/07 11:41 AM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238 The Ravenite Social Club
Don Cardi
Caporegime
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Caporegime
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238
The Ravenite Social Club
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I don't think that he was begining to change at that point. It has always been my belief that his change occurred when he was standing outside that hospital and scared off the hitmen. I believe that at that point the real Michael, who had been buried away deep down inside of himself, had finally emerged, and he saw it himself. And his being hit by McClusky only served to advance his true inner self to emergance. He was a Corleone at heart, and the one most like his father. That is why I believe that he was rebellious at a young age. He, like his father, had a mind of his own. He like his father, would do things his way. And after his father was shot, and the family threatened, we see him convince his bother, Tom and the capos to do things his way.
Don Cardi Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.
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Re: When does Michael start to change?
[Re: dontomasso]
#391573
05/08/07 12:15 PM
05/08/07 12:15 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238 The Ravenite Social Club
Don Cardi
Caporegime
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Caporegime
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238
The Ravenite Social Club
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At the end of Michael's conversation with Carlo his tone changes pretty rapidly when he tells him "Get out of my sight." I don't think Vito would have displayed a temper like that Vito may not have displayed an "emotion" like that. But the point is that out of Sonny, Fredo and Michael, it was Michael who inherited most of his father's traits. Sonny had Vito's trait in that he had a fondness for his family, a love for family. Fredo had Vito's warm heart. But Michael had Vito's cunning, had his manipulative ways, his patience, and his strong will. He was calculative like Vito. Like Vito he had the mind and the smarts to analyze a person and a situation. The one thing that Vito had that Michael did not have was a warm heart. You cannot deny that Michael was like Vito in many different ways. More so than the other boys.
Don Cardi Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.
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Re: When does Michael start to change?
[Re: Don Cardi]
#391583
05/08/07 01:18 PM
05/08/07 01:18 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,020 Texas
olivant
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,020
Texas
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At the end of Michael's conversation with Carlo his tone changes pretty rapidly when he tells him "Get out of my sight." I don't think Vito would have displayed a temper like that Vito may not have displayed an "emotion" like that. But the point is that out of Sonny, Fredo and Michael, it was Michael who inherited most of his father's traits. Sonny had Vito's trait in that he had a fondness for his family, a love for family. Fredo had Vito's warm heart. But Michael had Vito's cunning, had his manipulative ways, his patience, and his strong will. He was calculative like Vito. Like Vito he had the mind and the smarts to analyze a person and a situation. The one thing that Vito had that Michael did not have was a warm heart. You cannot deny that Michael was like Vito in many different ways. More so than the other boys. Exactly. Vito could get angry; Sonny inherited a propensity for anger. Vito was warm-hearted; Fredo was, also. Vito was intelligent, cunning, and manipulative. So was Michael. Of course, Vito had all of these characteristics which he used opportunely. The sons had only some of them which tended to dominate their actions.
"Generosity. That was my first mistake." "Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us." "Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
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Re: When does Michael start to change?
[Re: donjack]
#395441
05/23/07 06:34 PM
05/23/07 06:34 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 316 Toronto, Canada
UnderBoss
Capo
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Capo
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 316
Toronto, Canada
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There is an amazing subtly about his transformation IMO, it's my thesis that Michael is a powder keg of Corleone waiting to go off. I.e. he was either in completly or out, there was no in between and that is Michael's amazing quality his persistance and dedication. Back on topic, when visiting Genco (cut out scene), Vito explains that he should finish college but he has plans, Al Pacino, IMO, acts amazingly here and doesn't say a word but expresses disapproval and hesitation and unease here, including respect for Genco's condition and his father. You know if Vito wasn't Vito, he would say "no way buddy". It's true he ALWAYS had it in him, there is no doubt. He was always calm and cool and in the know, he just showed his amazing capacity when the match was thrown by having his father shot.
This all out or in quality about Michael was why he didn't want any part of it, he was absolutly resistant. Michael is proud and wanted to do everything on his terms, but he decided to come in when Vito was shot. This quality is kinda like being a control freak in a sense and is IMO why he has every tom dick and harry whacked that hint at crossing him.
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Re: When does Michael start to change?
[Re: dontomasso]
#395447
05/23/07 06:54 PM
05/23/07 06:54 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 295
ScarFather
OP
Capo
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OP
Capo
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 295
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At the end of Michael's conversation with Carlo his tone changes pretty rapidly when he tells him "Get out of my sight." I don't think Vito would have displayed a temper like that Michael now knew that Carlo had his brother killed. That reaction is normal I would think. You say Vito would have never displayed that temper(emotion)?... Well... he never had that happen to him(lose a brother).... Oh wait... yes he did... A Young Vito displays a "temper like that" right after cutting open Don Ciccio(man who killed his brother, father and mother). These reactions by young Vito and Michael are somewhat parallel in more ways than one.
"What I want.... whats most important to me... is that I have a guarantee" - Train approaches.... Bang! Bang! Bang!
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