Hey everybody! Its been a while since I have posted anything but I've always been here reading. I took a personal day this past week just to relax and because I had so many built up.What better way to relax than watch The Godfather. Watching for the umpteenth time, I pondered on some things.

1.Did Vito know from the moment Tom told him of Solozzo's reason the meeting that he was going to say no to his proposal?
And if he did always know, then why did he ask Tom and Sonny's opinion on the matter? Why even meet The Turk?

2.Why was Fredo at the meeting with Solozzo?
I mean it's Fredo...

3. If Sonny wouldn't have made his outburst in the meeting would the attempt on Vito's life still have taken place.

Just looking for opinions from my most valued Godfather friends.
Ace

Well Ace, some pretty good questions you have here...

1. Vito didn't KNOW from the instant of him being informed of the meeting. But I do believe he knew before he met with him, what his answer would be. I believe Vito just wanted to have more insight on the matter; on one hand. And he also wanted to gauge Sonny's thought process; on the other (how he would react in such a situation, given that he is successor to Corleone empire). He met with Solozzo out of respect point-blank (he even states this during the meeting).

2. Fredo was there to show numbers. And because to give the allusion that there is no weakness there. I think he wanted to display that he had full confidence in Fredo's competence (even if it wasn't really the case).

3. Well well well, Ace, you bring this issue back to light. It is my opinion that without that outburst, the attempt on his life would still have to be made. Do you remember what is said about Vito being killed. It's "the key", and would have to be done for the Sollozo's business.

Nice to hear from you again, Ace!
I agree with all of Frank's answers. I'd add:
1. The novel has Vito saying to Tom that "what he [Sollozzo] will propose is an infamia." But after the meeting with Sonny and Tom, he says that he'll have to wait and hear the details of Sollozzo's proposal. Then he tells Tom, almost casually, "Do you have it in your notes that Sollozzo made his living from prostitution before the war? As the Tattaglias do now. Write that down before you forget." Right there, Tom is convinced Vito's going to say no.
2. He included Fredo because there's strength in numbers. He wanted to show a united front against Sollozzo's proposal. Sonny torpedoed it.
3. The attempt on Vito's life would have been made anyway. Vito's "no" meant no business at all for Sollozzo. Even with family solidarity, Sollozzo (and his backers) understood that, with Vito dead, the family would be severely weakened, and thus more open to pressure to go along with the deal. I think he was counting on Tom to reason with Sonny in that event.

I didn't even think about looking up that part in the novel. I should have though.
I understand that there is strength in numbers BUT here is my thing,

Wouldn't Fredo's weaknesses have been common knowledge in wiseguy circles? If that were the case than couldn't it have come across as weakness to have Fredo be one of the people representing the family?

After all "Fredo was....well...."

Ace

As Senator Geary would say, I owuld like to "amplify" this answer a little.

I agree the hit would still have been made, but I think Sommy's outburst made it easier for everyone to get on board with the hit. With Sollozzo able to report back to Barzini that Sonny was "hot" for his idea, and that Tom thought it was the "right thing to do," Barzini would have been able to go to Tattaglia and the other heads of the families and say that not only was the hit feasible, but with the Don out of the way the Corleones could be persuaded to get into the drug business. This raises another question: Had Vito died would Sonny have made the deal with Sollozzo?

Well, Ace, I think that's the, EXACT, reasoning behind him being there, by Vito; to show that there may not be as much substance to this alleged "hear-say" as Sollozo may have believed (after all, Sollozo is relatively new and also "relatively" cunning so would form his own opinion aside from what may have been planted in his mind by others)

...but it was Sonny, not Fredo, who broke ranks...

Well, strictly speaking, Fredo's lack of machismo would have probably been general knowlege among wiseguys. But Vito had a soft spot for his kids and probably hoped that eventually the Corleone smahts would kick in.

Sonny's outburst made Sollozo see the different opinions in the family. Then he thought his plan would be agreed upon if Sonny became the head. And Sollozo got rid of Vito and Luca Brasi just to clear the obstacles in his way.

I'm watching GFI on Spike and I noticed something that I've never, ever noticed before. During the scene in the study where Michael is telling Clemenza and Tessio et al about the impending move to Nevada, in the background I can hear the bubbling of the fish tank(?). I never noticed it before and it seemed Godawfully loud even when Vito is explaining things to Tom on the couch. Anyone else notice it?

What son could?(I couldnt, I wouldnt).............. Not Sonny.... and as we all know.... NOT Michael.

Killing Vito wasnt necessary for the the drug business to start... to grow... it was about ultimate power for Barzini.

When Michael says "Its not personal Sonny... its only business".... well you know what... it IS personal business... Michael motives ARE personal... the decision is to keep his father safe and alive... personal and business are intertwined. If they never shoot the Don... then the personal business decision is NEVER made.

The novel makes it clear thatit is all business.