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The leaving of evidence in GFI at the killings... #365650
02/17/07 04:59 PM
02/17/07 04:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 525
Gent, Flanders
Don Cortisone Offline OP
Underboss
Don Cortisone  Offline OP
Underboss
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 525
Gent, Flanders
I honestly don't know how to kill people, but there's something that seems strange to me.

1. The killing of Paulie: leave the gun, take the cannoli. I'd rather leave the cannoli and take the gun, since this is evidence. They also leave the car behind. Who's car is it anyway?

2. The killing of Sollozo and McClusky. Michael has to drop the gun, as Clemenza told him. Again: evidence...

As we see Vito in action in GFII, after he killed Fanuci, he smashed the gun in 100 pieces and spreads those. No evidence at all, and he can go home and eat spaghetti in peace...

Can someone explain this?


*Flanders Free*
"Sire, il n'ya pas de Belges" - Jules Destrée (Belgian/Walloon minister of education in 1912)
Re: The leaving of evidence in GFI at the killings... [Re: Don Cortisone] #365657
02/17/07 05:10 PM
02/17/07 05:10 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 44,945
DE NIRO Offline
DE NIRO  Offline

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 44,945
Yeah but they are untracable evidence,gun that leaves no prints and car thats probley lisence to other people.Also the forencis(sp)evidence wasn't as good as today


The Mafia Is Not Primarily An Organisation Of Murderers.
First And Foremost,The Mafia Is Made Up Of Thieves.
It Is Driven By Greed And Controlled By Fear.

Between The Law And The Mafia, The Law Is Not The Most To Be Feared

"What if the Mafia were not an organization but a widespread Sicilian attitude of hostility towards the law?"

"Make Love Not War" John Lennon
Re: The leaving of evidence in GFI at the killings... [Re: Don Cortisone] #365659
02/17/07 05:10 PM
02/17/07 05:10 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238
The Ravenite Social Club
Don Cardi Offline
Caporegime
Don Cardi  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238
The Ravenite Social Club
With the killing of Paulie, Sollozo and McClusky, the guns used in those murders were untraceable and clean. Clemenza even put special tape on the gun for Michael so that that no fingerprints would be left on the gun. Probably did the same to the gun that was used to kill Paulie.

As for young Vito, the gun he used may have or may have not been traceable. And at that point in his life, Vito was not yet in a position to have connections of that kind. He didn't have people around him or under him who could provide him with an untraceable gun. And besides all that, Vito plotted and killed Fanucci without letting ANYONE else in on it. I also believe that this was the first killing that Vito had ever committed. So he was not experienced and was probably nervous as hell. And that was another reason that he broke up that gun and discarded it's pieces in several different places.


Don Cardi



Don Cardi cool

Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.




Re: The leaving of evidence in GFI at the killings... [Re: Don Cardi] #365698
02/17/07 06:13 PM
02/17/07 06:13 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,514
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,514
AZ
As DC said, Clemenza had a stash of "untraceable" guns and "special tape" to keep prints off of them. He gave Michael one for the S&M killings. There's every reason to believe he gave one to Rocco for the Paulie murder.
The most damning evidence in a murder case is if the cops catch the suspected killer with the murder weapon on him. They can retrieve a bullet from the victim, examine it microscopically, then fire a fresh round from the gun they lifted from the murder suspect. If the rifling markings on the bullets match, the defendent's finished. That's why Clemenza (and Sonny) were adament about Michael dropping the gun. In the novel, Sonny goes even farther: "If they get you with the gun on you, there's nothing we can do [to help you]."

Last edited by Turnbull; 02/17/07 06:14 PM.

Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: The leaving of evidence in GFI at the killings... [Re: Turnbull] #365707
02/17/07 08:12 PM
02/17/07 08:12 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 381
The BING
Sopranorleone Offline
Capo
Sopranorleone  Offline
Capo
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 381
The BING
As far as leaving the cannoli, the police may have been able to trace it back to a bakery and asked who frequently bought cannolis. Thereby, it may have been very detrimental to leave the cannoli in the car with Paulie.

Plus, you can't just let a good cannoli go to waste!

Re: The leaving of evidence in GFI at the killings... [Re: Sopranorleone] #365710
02/17/07 08:56 PM
02/17/07 08:56 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,527
In a van down by the river!
Longneck Offline
Longneck  Offline

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,527
In a van down by the river!
Clemenza didn't want to have to deal with his wife who asked him to pick up some cannolis.




Long as I remember The rain been coming down.
Clouds of Mystery pouring Confusion on the ground.
Good men through the ages, Trying to find the sun;
And I wonder, Still I wonder, Who'll stop the rain.

Re: The leaving of evidence in GFI at the killings... [Re: Don Cortisone] #365754
02/17/07 10:35 PM
02/17/07 10:35 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,020
Texas
O
olivant Offline
olivant  Offline
O

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,020
Texas
Originally Posted By: Don Cortisone
I honestly don't know how to kill people, but there's something that seems strange to me.

1. The killing of Paulie: leave the gun, take the cannoli. I'd rather leave the cannoli and take the gun, since this is evidence. They also leave the car behind. Who's car is it anyway?

2. The killing of Sollozo and McClusky. Michael has to drop the gun, as Clemenza told him. Again: evidence...

As we see Vito in action in GFII, after he killed Fanuci, he smashed the gun in 100 pieces and spreads those. No evidence at all, and he can go home and eat spaghetti in peace...

Can someone explain this?


Also, Clemenza told Paulie to pick him up in his own car; nothing hot.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: The leaving of evidence in GFI at the killings... [Re: olivant] #366428
02/19/07 10:31 AM
02/19/07 10:31 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso Offline
Consigliere to the Stars
dontomasso  Offline
Consigliere to the Stars

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
If paulie was found shot in his own car with a weaopn that was untraceable, the most the police could determine is that it was a mob hit. They would have no way of knowing which side of the incipient war Paulie was on and they would not know which family had him whacked. Since he was a low level bodyguard for the Corleones, they probably would not have put many resources into that particular murder.

As for the cannoli, Clemenza already had eaten one, and he had his fingerprints on one of the others as well as all over the box.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: The leaving of evidence in GFI at the killings... [Re: dontomasso] #366487
02/19/07 01:17 PM
02/19/07 01:17 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,514
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,514
AZ
Originally Posted By: dontomasso
If paulie was found shot in his own car with a weaopn that was untraceable, the most the police could determine is that it was a mob hit. They would have no way of knowing which side of the incipient war Paulie was on and they would not know which family had him whacked. Since he was a low level bodyguard for the Corleones, they probably would not have put many resources into that particular murder.


Exactly! Plus, the Corleones wanted Paulie's body to be discovered. It was intended as a message to the other side that they'd discovered the traitor in the family.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: The leaving of evidence in GFI at the killings... [Re: Turnbull] #367169
02/20/07 06:08 PM
02/20/07 06:08 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 831
New Market, MD
DeathByClotheshanger Offline
Underboss
DeathByClotheshanger  Offline
Underboss
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 831
New Market, MD
The Corleone's also had the cops in their pocket. Not that they buy off a cop after killing one, but the connections they did have helped out, no doubt.

They also had connections in the media that could spin the story to make it sound like McClusky "had it coming to him." So the family wasn't too worried about the evidence being left at the crime scene.

Re: The leaving of evidence in GFI at the killings... [Re: DeathByClotheshanger] #371906
03/04/07 07:23 PM
03/04/07 07:23 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 28
New York
louPete Offline
Wiseguy
louPete  Offline
Wiseguy
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 28
New York
How do you make a gun untraceable in regards to fingerprints?


louPete
Re: The leaving of evidence in GFI at the killings... [Re: louPete] #371908
03/04/07 07:58 PM
03/04/07 07:58 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 22,902
New York
SC Offline
Consigliere
SC  Offline
Consigliere

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 22,902
New York
Originally Posted By: louPete
How do you make a gun untraceable in regards to fingerprints?


Special tape on the butt and trigger.


.
Re: The leaving of evidence in GFI at the killings... [Re: louPete] #371909
03/04/07 08:05 PM
03/04/07 08:05 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238
The Ravenite Social Club
Don Cardi Offline
Caporegime
Don Cardi  Offline
Caporegime

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238
The Ravenite Social Club
Originally Posted By: louPete
How do you make a gun untraceable in regards to fingerprints?



Originally Posted By: Don Cardi
Clemenza even put special tape on the gun for Michael so that that no fingerprints would be left on the gun.


Originally Posted By: Turnbull
As DC said, Clemenza had a stash of "untraceable" guns and "special tape" to keep prints off of them.




Don Cardi



Don Cardi cool

Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.




Re: The leaving of evidence in GFI at the killings... [Re: Don Cortisone] #373277
03/07/07 10:59 PM
03/07/07 10:59 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 6
Minnesota, US
B
bionicjones Offline
Associate
bionicjones  Offline
B
Associate
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 6
Minnesota, US
In Puzo’s book, it is clear that Clemenza and Lampone leave Pauli in the car to make his murder more exposed - to frighten would-be traitors and prove that the Corleone Family had not gone “soft.”

Re: The leaving of evidence in GFI at the killings... [Re: bionicjones] #373283
03/07/07 11:40 PM
03/07/07 11:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
pizzaboy Offline
The Fuckin Doctor
pizzaboy  Offline
The Fuckin Doctor

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
Welcome bionicjones. You're absolutely right, however, we have a thread dedicated solely to the book that you might enjoy.


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: The leaving of evidence in GFI at the killings... [Re: DE NIRO] #378645
03/24/07 10:34 AM
03/24/07 10:34 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 45
D
donjack Offline
Wiseguy
donjack  Offline
D
Wiseguy
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 45
 Originally Posted By: DE NIRO
Yeah but they are untracable evidence,gun that leaves no prints and car thats probley lisence to other people.Also the forencis(sp)evidence wasn't as good as today


Who's to say the gun what killed paulie was untraceable.

Re: The leaving of evidence in GFI at the killings... [Re: donjack] #378651
03/24/07 11:24 AM
03/24/07 11:24 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238
The Ravenite Social Club
Don Cardi Offline
Caporegime
Don Cardi  Offline
Caporegime

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238
The Ravenite Social Club
Logic would dictate that just in the same manner that Clemenza gave Michael a gun that was untracable and specially taped as not to leave fingerprints on it, he would also have done the same thing for Rocco. After all it was Clemenza's job to take care of these kinds of details. If he did it for the hit on Sollozo and McCluskey, surely he would do the same for the hit on Paulie Gatto.



Don Cardi cool

Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.





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