Vito Corleone's last words as he died in his beloved garden. This scene as well as many others in the novel show us how much the Michael we see in the films was NOT his father's son -- or at least he did not turn out to be a man like his father.

In the famous speech to the commission Don Corleone tells the group that eventually they would become the new pezzanovante in America, and that their children and grandchildren would be puling all the strings. Often in the book Michael tells Kay and others how he wants his children to pursue whatever they like (he even says he hopes one of his children becomes a musician!) Once he has consolidated his power and moved to Vegas, there was no further need for Michael to continue with his nefarious ways. The family had all the money they needed to go legitimate, and he did not need to be negotiating with the likes of Hyman roth to get a foothold in Cuba. IMO Michael went seriously off the tracks in GFII, and by GFIII he would be the last person on earth to utter those lovely last words his father had spoken.

I believe it is true, Micheal Corleone never turned out to be anything like his father, he does have some of his qualties but they fade away as he commits more crimes(he killed his brother!!) I still don't understand that. Micheal became a criminal he went bigtime into narcotics and did not fullfill his promises to Kay, Don Vito would never have made a promise if he did not know for sure that he would be able to make it come true. Micheal Corleone became greeving for power went crazy on killing people, i believe he got out of hand, he thinks he is god! I am really disappointed that Miky became the man he is now he could have been a better man. With all regards Don Dakmak...

In truth, they were no different in the sense that both became gangsters and made their livings off of the backs and misfortunes of others. Both were cold blooded murderers.

But as far as personality, I have to agree with you both here. Although Michael was the son most like his father, he did not have his father's heart. Vito had a heart that consisted of compassion. Michael had a heart that consisted of coldness.

And the truth of the matter is that Vito could have easily been the one to grow up with a cold heart. As a boy he watched his whole family being murdered and saw his brother and his mother killed before his own eyes. That alone could have been excuse enough for Vito to grow up a cold son of a bitch. But he didn't. Yes he was ruthless when he needed to be, and killed when he had to, but he also had the ability to seperate his coldness in business from his blood family. Vito knew the value of the blood family. Vito cherished it and grew up embracing it because his family was taken away from him as a child. And instead of growing completely cold and ruthless even with his own family, he sincerely appreciated his wife, children and his extended family.

Michael on the other hand grew up in a loving family. He did not grow up without a mother, father or a brother. Yet when he eventually lost those he loved to the evils of the underworld, it made him cold and ruthless with both those he did business with and those in his own family. And I believe that Michael was spoiled. Rebelious in nature and yet, like his father, controlling. But the difference was that Vito was controlling in a way where the person that he was controlling would never realize it. They subconsciencely welcomed it.

Michael, on the other hand, was the type of personality that wanted the person that he was controlling to know that MICHAEL CORLEONE was in control. Vito gracefully controlled the strings. Michael controlled them with attitude.

Vito was about being reasonable. And although he demanding respect, he also gave it back at the same time.

Michael was about being reasonable, but only with what was reasonable to him. And while he demanded respect, he did not always give it.

Michael was about ego. Vito was not.

And we know, by his own self addmission, what Michael desired to have, but lacked that his father had : The ability to say no without offending the person that you were saying no to. Vito was able to do that. Michael was not.

Vito would never have killed his own brother. As a matter of fact he got revenge against those who killed his own brother.

Michael got revenge against his own brother and killed him.

Michael and Vito : Two different sides of the same coin.



Don Cardi

I would take it a step further, DC, in saying that Michael was indeed a "lousy cold hearted bastard" and Vito was not. In the novel there are countless examples of Vito's acts of kindness toward the most humble of people, and it is clear that at his funeral and at the wake at the mall there were people from all walks of life who Vito had helped. Likewise at Connie's wedding Vito wanted it to be all inclusive..."a guinea wedding" instead of comething more elitist which Connie wanted. Compare those events to the high class event Michael sponsored in tahoe for his son's first communion. Clearly Michael was noa a man of the people like Vito was.

Additionally, Puzo at least gives a rationale for the existence of the mafia. He explains that Sicily had been conqured so many times and ruled by corrupt people that the Sicilians thmselves created the Mafia for their own protection. When Vito came to the US he learned quickly that Italkian Americans were not getting a fair shake, and he refused to become a part of what he saw as a corrupt system. By the time Michael attained power, he could have done more to fulfill Vito's dream that one day there would be no need for a Mafia, but instead the Sicilians could live the American dream and themselved become pezzanovante.

Given that the Corleone wealth which Puzo describes (including vast real estate holdings in New York City, Hotels in Vegas, and investments in FLorida property going back to the 50's, there was plenty of money and Michael didnt really need to be doing business with Hyman Roth. For that matter he didnt need to be meddling in Frankie Five Angels affairs. He could have told Frankie .."do what you want with the Rosatos, its your family now. You are absolutely right when you say I am living here drinking champagne cocktails and out of the street business.
Had Mike just developed the Corleones legitimate holdings, had he chosen not to go into business with Roth, and had he not continued to micromanage the New York street operations he would have been fulfilling his father's dream.

In reflecting further on this whole thing, I keep going back to Michael's speech in GFIII over the body of DonTomassino. There he is truly a lost man. He does not understand why Dontomassino (and by the same analysis his father) was loved and why he, Michael was feared. He asks what betrayed him...his heart? his mind??? What he is avoiding is he betrayed himself, and at then end of the day he betrayed his fathers own wish that one day there could be a Senator Corleone, Governor Corleone...whatever.

Ahh ahh ahh! This is the Godfather Novel thread so therefore you are not allowed to make references to part III.

Seriously though, excellent points all around on your part.



Don Cardi

Vito makes it clear that they are NOT murderers, despite what that undertaker says. Maybe I view it wrong but I always thought that since Vito was born fighting against the pezzonovante and his family was murdered when he was just a small child, combined with the fact that he was forced to flee and was a poor immigrant, meant he was simply doing what he had to to support his family.

That said, he could have eventually pulled the plug on the mob life but didn't. There just wasn't enough time Cardi, there just wasn't enough time.

And as far as making their livings off the backs and misfortunes of others? Isn't that what most ppl do in a capitalist system? (EDIT-one of the Brando bios I read said that the central theme of Godfather was Capitalism, which as a system allows things like La Cosa Nostra to thrive. The fact that we have a system of capitalism means we will always have things like the mob.)Those wall street bankers who alter the interest rates and control stock price fluctuations must be REAL scum in your eyes.

Besides, Vito's business was gambling. Hardly a tyrannical practice of mass genocide.

I agree. Vito was a kind hearted man, while Michael(after becoming don) relied on nothing but cold logic. He had no room for the emotions and feelings of life, he viewed life as the cold hearted tragedy it is, and left room for no other view of it. Vito was much more of a glass 'half full' guy than his son was.

I've posted previously about this subject what I believe to be the Superman III syndrome. In that film I believe Superman splits off into three supermen none of which is like the original. That's true of Sonny, Fredo, and Michael. They each had some of Vito's characteristics, but none had them all in the stew that was Vito Corleone. Fredo was nice even loving; Sonny was fierce; Michael was intelligent. In one bundle, quite a personage; separately, Madonne!

By the way, in the novel Tom tells Kay on behalf of Michael that treachery can't be forgiven.

Yes, in the last pages of the book when Kay ran off to New Hampshire and Tom gives her the "straight talk" speech about the family. Then tells her "If you told Michael what I've told you today. I'm a dead man".
Another GREAT part of the novel, which may have done much to explain Tom's growing "resentment" with Michael in Part 2.
Think about it. It was Tom, who Michael trusted to go up to New Hampshire to talk to Kay. Yet, he confides to Kay that his very words that would be succesful in changing her mind, could go on to get HIM killed. Hardly fair, am I right ?

Good point Pizza. But as has been discussed elsewhere on the Board, Michael blamed Tom for the whole Sollozzo/Sonny situation. You might even notice that during he Geary meeting, Mike gives a look to Tom when Geary tells them that he knows about he move against the Tropigala. I think Mike is blaming Tom for the leak.

Oh, no doubt Olivant. I'm sure he was blaming Tom for the leak.
That's my whole point. I really think that Michael was just too tough on Tom in general.
You'd think that Michael would have seen Tom as more of a kindred spirit. In that, just as "there wasn't enough time" as Vito so eloquently put it, to "school" Michael, there wasn't enough time for Tom's education either.
In that, he never had the chance to work with and learn from Vito, during a wartime situation. During the "war years" of the early 30's, Tom was still in college.
Remember, according to the novel, he doesn't tell Vito that he wants to work for him until AFTER he passes the bar exam and marries Theresa. Which would probably be sometime in the late 30's, a relatively peaceful time for the Corleones.
Now many of us point out, and justifiably so, that Tom was not even Italian, let alone Sicilian. And never could have served as an effective "wartime" consigliere. But in fairness, he never got the necessary experience either.
Getting back to Michael. I think should have been more patient, even loving, with Tom.

Not enough time to educate them and not enough time to make the move to the legit world of legalized gambling. That's what I think atleast. Vito would have hoped to have been completely legit if the day ever came(God forbid) that Mike had to take over the 'olive oil' end of the business. Thanks to Sonny's death, Mike DID have to take over, and the Don had not yet made his move to the legit world. 'There just wasn't enough time.'

Good catch Ice. Thanks for bailing me out. Vito was no doubt mainly speaking of the move to the legitimate world.
I was just applying it to Tom not having the time to complete his "apprenticeship" as consigliere, and Michael's subsequent impatience with him.

I think Mike looked at Tom as a "white guy" just as he did Geary (ethnic or racial prejudice there). Tom did make some significant mistakes, Sonny's death being the greatest. But he also failed to protect the Don, to protect the family, wartime consigliere or not. At first chance, Mike got rid of him, then used him after that. No, Mike's disdain for Tom has its origins in Michael's comtempt for him as Consigliere and Sonny's death.

I disagree. I don't believe that Vito ever thought the HE himslef would bring the family business over to the legitimate world. I believe that he had hoped that Michael would be the son to do this, but not himself.

His saying that "There just wasn't enough time" was, in my opinion, said in regards to his not having enough time to mentor Michael in the illegitimate end of the business because Vito never intended for Michael to have to handle the illegitimate end of the business :

MICHAEL : What's the matter? What's bothering you?
I'll handle it. I told you I can handle it, I'll handle it.


VITO CORLEONE : I knew that Santino was going to have to go through all this. But I never -- I never wanted this for you.

Which makes me believe that he was worried because he never intended for Michael to have to go through this and take over the illegitimate end of the business, because there wasn't enough time to teach him about the illegitimate end of the business.

Vito did not intend to bring himself along with Michael into the legitimate world. However I do believe that he had plans for Michael himself to someday bring the Corleone name into legitimacy.


But the not having enough time line was in reference to Michael's having to become the new Don of the Corleone criminal end of the business without the proper amount of time needed to be taught by Vito.


Don Cardi

That's just what I was driving at DC, that neither Michael OR Tom had enough time to learn the "street" end of the business.

I disagree. Vito didn't want Mike in the Family - he wanted him to be a bigshot politician or businessman. There wasn't enough time to permit him to do so. He was forced to usher Mike into the Family's top spot.

Thanks DC, I think I agree and would have to adjust my thinking on this. Vito had hoped that Mike would be the 'bridge' that formed the Corleones w/ the legit world. Had Santino been around, he would have run the olive oil business while Senator/Governor Michael would have helped pave the way to the legit world.

The move to Vegas and into legitimate gambling was Vito's plan, I have to think that Mike as a Senator or Governor in that state would have helped things tremendously, especially w/ the Pat Geary's of the world.

Great points here, but compare this (sorry DC I am mixing the movies with the novel again) to what Michael says to Vincent when he passses the torch to him. Instead of saying there wasn't enough time, Michael says "Once you get in you can never get out."

The aptitude of Michael and his character is only because he was forced to change. I mean (sorry for my bad english) that Michael had never wanted his life, but he couldn't change it.

At the end, he was completely tired of being forced.

I think that both Vito and Michael wanted to be legitimate only as a means to their end which ultimately were power. I think that they would still have engaged in murder and mayhem as Michael obviously did. Both Vito and Michael had opportunities to just walk away. But they didn't because they considered murder as a legitimate recourse.

That's a good point, Olivant.
Vito probably could've walked away and quietly lived out his days after the attempt on his life, a la Frank Costello, after the Genovese-Gigante attempt on his.
However, it's all moot, because Sonny was too steeped in the business and far too violent and hell bent on revenge by nature, for this to have ever played out as such.
As far as legitimacy as a means to an end, I agree. Senator Corleone, governor Corleone....
American politics are the ultimate power trip, that's what Vito had in mind.

I always thought what a better film GodFather would make if FFC make life is beautiful as Vito's last words in the movie, rather than to let Tony spray water onto his body.

I don't like the "Life is beautiful" line. It's too heavy-handed. I liked the more natural way he died which is more open to interpretation.

And there is no way to make a perfect movie better!

His last line should have been "That damn kid of yours Mike ... he did this to me."

Or being that he died among the tomato plants, he could have said, "I should've had a V8," while slapping himself in the head.

I really couldn't resist.

Young Anthony sprayed him with insecticide.
In a deleted scene, Vito's last words weren't "life is so beautiful," but "I hope the f*****g government bans DDT."

Or, alternatively, "That stupid kid of yours! I bet he grows up to be a damn opera singer."