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Re: "If we lose the old man, we lose our political..."
[Re: olivant]
#348845
12/09/06 09:25 PM
12/09/06 09:25 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,520 AZ
Turnbull
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,520
AZ
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In addition to the above reasons: --The politicians and police that Vito had in his pocket were more loyal to money than to him. Some would have abandoned the Corleones if Vito died (probably because they didn't know Sonny or trust his judgment or temperament). But at least some others would have stayed on board because (as Puzo said in the novel) they had kids to send through college. Sonny would have inherited them, but in a weakened condition, giving Sollozzo more leverage to bargain for their rental. --Sollozzo also was cruising to make his mark as an important man in the NYC Mafia. Vito's "no" was a serious defeat for his campaign to be taken seriously as a player. If he'd whacked Vito and imposed his will on Sonny, he'd have gained tremendous status and respect from the other Dons. In turn, they'd be eager to play ball with him, probably treating him as a fellow Don.
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu, E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu... E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
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Re: "If we lose the old man, we lose our political
[Re: olivant]
#348956
12/10/06 05:03 PM
12/10/06 05:03 PM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 37
DonRoberto
OP
Wiseguy
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OP
Wiseguy
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 37
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Sicilian babe - I think you made a very good point here. However, Tom clearly states, "if we lose the old man, we lose our political connections." Even if Tom is a liason, by the plain meaning of this statment the Politicians seem loyal to Vito, and no-one else. One possible conjecture, however: If Vito were to die, would the politicians essentially become "free agents", looking for another source of wealth to provide them with the lifestyle they had become accustomed to? In otherwords, could Sollozo gain a chance at putting the politicians in his OWN pocket if he severed the politicians allegiance to Vito, being that Vito's interests were contrary to Sollozzo's? If this assumption is correct, than perhaps Sollozzo would just be cutting out the "middle man" (Vito), and going directly to the source.
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Re: "If we lose the old man, we lose our political..."
[Re: DonRoberto]
#349007
12/10/06 07:54 PM
12/10/06 07:54 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238 The Ravenite Social Club
Don Cardi
Caporegime
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Caporegime
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238
The Ravenite Social Club
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Q: If the the main purpose of the Turk approaching Vito was to get the political protection needed to allow the drug business to function, why would the Turk sink his own ship by asassinating Vito and severing Vito's "political contacts"? The Turk may not have know that he potentially sunk his own ship when trying to kill Vito. At that meeting between The Turk and Vito, Sonny showed his hand by speaking out of turn. Sonny showed that he was, as Sollozzo puts it, " Hot for my deal." And at that moment of Sonny's outburst, Sollozzo thought that by getting Vito out of the way, Sonny would eventually come around and go for his deal. And in thinking so, Sollozzo probably figured that being Sonny was the second in command of the Corleone family, and the Don's son, that he, Sonny, would retain those political contacts that could be used in this drug deal. So basically Sollozzo probably ASSUMED that Sonny would still have access to the politicians that Vito had in his pocket. Sollozzo had no way of knowing that without Vito, the Corleones would lose their political contacts. As far as Sollozzo knew, it was the Corleone's who had all of those political contacts, and not specifically Vito. Don Cardi
Don Cardi Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.
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Re: "If we lose the old man, we lose our political..."
[Re: olivant]
#349017
12/10/06 09:50 PM
12/10/06 09:50 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,520 AZ
Turnbull
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,520
AZ
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One of the things we are forgetting is that Sollozzo also wanted Vito to front $1 million. That's curious. Wouldn't he get his funding from other sources and why didn't he figure that Vito's help would easily be worth a million? He probably could have gotten the million bucks from other Dons. But he may have wanted it from Vito to cement their relationship. By lending him $1 million, Vito would have more skin in the game--more reason to want Sollozzo to succeed--than if he were simply providing police and political protection. Sollozzo surmised, correctly, that Vito would at best be uneasy about drugs. If Vito'd agreed to provide police and political protection only, he'd have the option to cut and run if Sollozzo or his people got into a really rough situation. But if Vito funded Sollozzo, he'd have additional incentive to see him through the rough spots, if only to be sure to collect what was owed him.
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu, E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu... E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
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Re: "If we lose the old man, we lose our political..."
[Re: Turnbull]
#349064
12/11/06 11:15 AM
12/11/06 11:15 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468 With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso
Consigliere to the Stars
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Consigliere to the Stars
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
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Vito told Sollozzo that he didn't think his political connections would do any good if it had to do with the drug trade, instead of "gambling and women." He figured that if they got into pushing drugs he would not be able to rely on the network he had carefully built.
In the novel, after the Don dies, Michael makes some kind of comment about how he didn't have enough time to get all the politicall clout his father had all lined up.
Sollozzo probably understood at some fundamental level that Sonny could not manage politicians and judges with the finesse that Vito did, and he rightly figured that Hagen probably brokered many of the deals, and therefore would continue as consigliere of a weakened Corleone family.
Even when Vito makes his compromise on drugs to end the war and get Michael home, he does so on the conditions that it is not sold to children, not sold in the Italian neighborhoods, and only sold in the "dark areas" where "they're animals anyway." Given the times Vito figured such an arrangement would be something to which an overwhelming majority of the politicians and judges he controlled would turn a blind eye.
"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"
"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."
"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."
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Re: "If we lose the old man, we lose our political..."
[Re: Turnbull]
#349081
12/11/06 12:03 PM
12/11/06 12:03 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 276 Huntsville, AL
FrankWhite
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 276
Huntsville, AL
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One of the things we are forgetting is that Sollozzo also wanted Vito to front $1 million. That's curious. Wouldn't he get his funding from other sources and why didn't he figure that Vito's help would easily be worth a million? He probably could have gotten the million bucks from other Dons. But he may have wanted it from Vito to cement their relationship. By lending him $1 million, Vito would have more skin in the game--more reason to want Sollozzo to succeed--than if he were simply providing police and political protection. Sollozzo surmised, correctly, that Vito would at best be uneasy about drugs. If Vito'd agreed to provide police and political protection only, he'd have the option to cut and run if Sollozzo or his people got into a really rough situation. But if Vito funded Sollozzo, he'd have additional incentive to see him through the rough spots, if only to be sure to collect what was owed him. And then, in addition to TB's reasoning, there's also the fact that this is a business and Vito's ROI would be quite high (even with the $1 mill. investment). Without this monetary investment by Vito, Sollozo would be losing quite a bit of money... Remember, this whole thing is about MONEY... nothing else. Sollozo wanted lots of it.
"From now on, nothing goes down unless I'm involved. No blackjack no dope deals, no nothing. A nickel bag gets sold in the park, I want in. You guys got fat while everybody starved on the street. Now it's my turn." (King of New York)
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