In a deleted scene in The Godfather, Sonny tells Mama Corleone about the Don Being shot. Then he goes into the Don's study. He looks over at the Don's empty chair and then decides to sit down in another chair instead.

Do you think that at that moment, looking at the Don's empty chair and deciding not to sit in it, Sonny had doubts about his own ability to fill his father's shoes?


Don Cardi

I hadn't noticed that. Are you sure? If so, no. I think he was truly in awe of his father and out of respect chose not to sit there. I think he thought he could hold the empire together until his dad was well. Of course, the novel says just about the same thing. I do think he was well aware o fhis temper right after Tom was grabbed, but he couldn't hold his anger in long enough. Thus the war of attrition and the enemies planning the trap for his murder which his anger propelled him to fall in to.

That is the exact same interpretation I always had of that scene as well DC. Sonny was on quite a power trip in his family position before Vito's assassination attempt, controlling the streets, taking down rival rackets, all the other activities a blood thirsty young Mafia man would have reveled in. Once Vito got shot, the days of care-free aggression were done for him, and I think this is the realization he comes to as he's looking at Vito's empty chair.

Yes Olivant. It is on the extras DVD. Check it out if you have it. And your point is a valid point.

But notice how when Michael later on is in the Don's room with everyone, and is told to try getting Luca on the phone. He has absolutely no qualms whatsoever about going right over to the Don's chair and sitting in it.

Could it be that FFC wanted to hint to us that Michael was the son most fitting to take over for his father?

I've gotten the same vibes as you have in that Sonny respected his father and that is why he wouldn't sit in that chair. But for some strange reason, I feel that at that very moment, a part of Sonny felt that he could never really be the Don that his father was.


Don Cardi

Sonny may have doubted himself, but I don't think that's the reason he hesitated when looking at the Don's chair.

The vibe I always got from that scene was much more somber. To me...it seemed that Sonny thought that as long as he doesn't sit down in his father's chair...his father will be ok. "Pop'll be back, so I'll leave his chair be."

That's the vibe I got, anyway.

I would imagine it's a combination of both. Any son of a man like Vito would be hesitant about taking over for his father. His father was so loved and respected, was considered a great man by many. For any son to suddenly have to fill that role would be intimidating. Big shoes to fill.

And as much as this was "business and not personal", Sonny was still a son who loved his father, and who was frightened that his father would die. I would imagine that the hesitation was a little insecurity and a little bit of sadness and fear for his father's life.

Ya I always thought that one of Puzo's underlying themes is the fact that the Corleone children were a lot more like the normal, everyday loved kids than say the Tattaglia's or Barzini's. Vito's family was the best family he ever formed.

I concur with XDCX. To quote Henry Hill, "It was outta respect."

Well, that could be true about that moment if viewed along with his disposition during the phone call from Sollozzo. He tells Sonny not to lose his famous temper. Sonny then immediately acknowleges that that is his flaw by the look of resignation on his face. Of course, he then reverts to the old Sonny by grabbing Clemenza. So, yes, he may have looked at the chair and internally acknowleged that he could never be the man his father was. I think though that by Michael sitting in his father's chair FFC sent a signal that Michael just did not acknowlege what that chair represented and he was using it purely as a utilitarian device - a place to sit.

First, that was a good catch, DC!
Second, I think Sonny acknowledges that he's not as good as the Don when, after Tom tells him he should make the deal, he says that the answer is "no" until the Don is feeling better and can take charge. In the novel, he tells Michael, "I know I'm not the man [Vito] was...but when it comes to real action, I can operate as good as anybody, short range." That's a pretty good, and pretty accurate, self-description. I also think (and this is a reach) that Sonny might have hesitated to sit in the chair because he realized that his gaffe at the meeting with Sollozzo, Vito et al precipitated the attempt on Vito.

Well, of course Sonny felt as though he could never fill his fathers shoes, but I believe that declining to sit in the chair was an attempt by Coppola to show us a combination of all the wonderful posts by you guys. As good a Don that Vito was; there is no way that Sonny could've believed that he could measure up. I don't even believe Michael would think such a thing... even after all his accomplishments. And it would be a HUGE deal to sit in that chair, being that he is the "acting" don, at that time... maybe, in Sonny's mind (as alluded to in an earlier post) sitting in that chair means that he is no longer "acting" and that may just be a thought too gruesome to stomache.

Yes, a point about Mike that is not often shared in here. He knew he could NOT possibly live up to Vito, business or personally I say. "Its not easy being his son Fredo."

I always thought Sonny did not sit in his father's chair because it was "the Don's chair" and Vito was still alive, and it was out of some kind of respect. That said, DC you could be right for several reasons.

No question Sonny doubted himself. Again I refer to the flashback scene in GFII. When Sonny is introducing everyone to Carlo, he insults Mike by introducing him as the "droopy" kid, and saying "We call him Joe College." We see it again when Sonny mocks Mike in the "Badda-bing all over your Ivy league suit" scene. We also see it in his relationship with Tom when he says "Pop had Genco, look what I got..." and then IMMEDIATELY he apologizes to Tom (something Michael would never do even if he was wrong to say it). Sonny was very much the stereotype of the son of a famous and powerful man. You could also see it in the scene where they were all sitting around eating chinese take out food (yes I know some say it was Italian)while they were waiting to learn where the Sollozzo meeting would take place. At one point Sonny says maybe Mike shoud just shoot them when they picked him up, and Tom had to shout him down. Then when Sonny learns where they are going he is a little too smug about it, which was a great piece of acting by James Caan.

It was thrust upon him early, and he always knew he had big shoes to fill, and no question he knew he could not fill them.

Footnote - In the Havana scene with Mike and Fredo both of them also touch on this subject. Fredo says he wishes he had married someone like Kay and "for once in my life be more like pop." To which Michael answers "Its not easy being a son."

You mean Sonny, not Tom.

Thanks. I made the necessary edits.

DonT... you bring up a very good point... when Fredo says this, is he admitting Michael's closer likeness to his father than himself??? If so, then what was that huge tirade over when he tries to express his own competence to Mike??? Was Fredo really that smart??? was he trying to throw Mike off of his path by making those flattering remarks while they met??? I have often thought that Fredo really wasn't that stupid. and one may say, for the simple fact, that he basically told on himself, that he is... but let's not forget (and although a lame excuse, it is valid) he was very drunk and relaxed at the time. and maybe this is a discussion for another thread, but I think it should be addressed. (my apologies, if it already has been addressed)

Actually the script in JG's 'The Godfather Trilogy' says 'Its not easy to be his son.' I always thought he said 'Its not easy being his son.'

I don't think he was either drunk or relaxed at the time (if you mean the boathouse scene, as in "I'm smart, not dumb..."). His awkward demeanor came from sitting in one of those preposterously uncomfortable Fifties canvas Bauhaus-type chairs that were popular then. I bet FFC deliberately put Fredo in that chair for two reasons: authenticity; and to make it physically harder and more awkward (and thus more dramatic) for John Cazale to express his indignation. Another master touch!

I think FW is referring to the Superman Show in Havana.

There are smart and not so smart people in this world. Fredo was in the latter group. Just like some people who find themselves having the lesser qualifications, Fredo was frustrated by his lesser qualifications. But his outburst was not about smartness; it was about respect.

The reason Sonny hesitated was that the sight of that empty chair drove home the reality that his father had been shot, could still die, and would not be occupying that spot for a long time, if ever.

It would've had the same impact of noticing the favorite chair or seat at the dinner table of a family member who had just died or become gravely ill. A very sobering moment. No one would want to be the first to occupy such a spot so soon after the initial tragedy.

I'm not convinced Sonny 'doubted' his own abilities in the role suddenly thrust upon him...but it surely would've dawned on him that he was about to step into a BIG pair of shoes.

Yes, Michael would later sit in the chair effortlessly and with no thought whatsoever, and YES...this may have been FFC's not so subtle symbolism at Michael's eventual rise...but he had also been away from home, apparently estranged from the Don, and up to this time not impressed nor interested in the Family Business run so successfully by 'pop'. While concerned for his father of course, the chair itself may have had little emotional impact on this family 'rebel'.

Apple

My God, how long can this go on? I'm agreeing with Apple again!

Oh it can go on for several more pages. We are just getting warmed up. I mean the symbolism of the Don's chair has not been discussed, there are issues about wheher what kind of a chair it was, what grade of leather, how the Don acquired it, whether his chair was better than the chairs of the other heads of the five families, whether Sonny got caught sitting in the chair when he was a kid, got scolded for it and was traumatized.
Lots of stuff.

..............if it was the same chair that Frankie Five Angels used when he took over the Don's office.



Don Cardi

Also it was later rehupolstered for Michael...he used it in GF III....the way it happened was one of the times Michaels people came to give some cash to Frankie's widow (remember they promised to take care of the family if he killed himself) he said "Don Corleone would appreciate it if he could have his father's chair," and of course she immediately obliged. The chair was taken to a shop run by Enzo the Baker's Cousin, Luigi the Rehupolsterer, who did the job for free as a favor to his don.

I agree with you olivant, that his outburst was about respect... but I think that it was MOSTLY about resentment. Fredo resented the fact that he was viewed as such an unintelligent and incapable man (hence his infamous"... I'm smart, not like everyone thinks, like dumb" speech). And he also resented the fact that Mike "takes care of" him... afterall, he was his "kid brother".

The more and more I think about it... I believe that Fredo may have been making a run at the Corleone donship. I know that it is common belief that he was not ambitious, intelligent, etc. enough, but there are far too many coincidences for me to believe that he was merely a pawn in a much bigger scheme of things.

Well, that raises a question that's been discussed (one way or another) on this board: What did Ola and/or Roth promise Fredo, as in "He said there'd be somethin' in it for me"? In turn, it raises the question of what Fredo's role was in the Tahoe shooting, and what he thought would happen to Michael. It's not my intent to raise all these questions yet again. But it seems clear that Fredo wanted a bigger role in the family--perhaps, as Frank suggested, even the Donship.

Could it be that Fredo was lying when he told Michael he didn't know it was going to be a hit??? Since there was something in it for him, this is a real possibility. Even Fredo would have had to know if whatever was in it for him -- on his own -- would either have to have been something outside the Corleones control, something he would know Michael would never allow (say some territory, or some position in the Roth "family" equivalent to a Capo), or some kind of higher position in the Corleone family which would have come about through the "negotiations" Michael was engaged in ...as in "Ok we'll concede this to you, but we want you to put Fredo in charge of something"....which makes no sense whatsoever.

On the other hand, if it was a hit, Fredo could have easily believed he would succeed Michael and become the Don. In reality of course if the hit was successful the family would have broken up quickly. Pentangeli would be killed, Tom would take that job with the hotel chain, and Neri and his men would make the best possible deal they could make with Roth.

My reference was to finding myself agreeing with Apple ... again!
Is there no end to that?

Okay, Fredo might have been so unintelligent that he was not able to see the potential consequences of his actions. Didn't he tell Mike that he didn't know it was going to be a hit? Such lack of intelligence implies that Fredo did not have to be promised much by Ola. Keep in mind that Fredo was already running some portion of the Corleones' business. We can't be sure, but he probably had a substantial income, command of troops, and the respect that comes just from being a Corleone. What else could Ola offer him? Plus, if he truly believed that it was not going to be a hit (only a wounding?), how in the world was Ola going to deliver the promised "something" without Mike finding out ("Hey Mike, Ola's giving me a casino in Havana because he likes me"). Also, what was Fredo's reward from Ola since he apparently did do something (the drapes?)for Ola/Roth, didn't he? Was he stupid enough, as someone else has suggested, to think that he could be the Don? Yes.