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once again: Tahoe assault #338777
11/01/06 10:35 AM
11/01/06 10:35 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 55
Frankfurt
McCluskey Offline OP
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McCluskey  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 55
Frankfurt
Michael says: "Unless I'm very wrong, they're dead already. Killed by somebody close to us - inside."

So Michael belived that the traitor in the familiy - i.e. Fredo -killed the assassins?

Why did he leave to Miami that abruptly? Whats the benefit of that trip? Did he believe that Roth tells him the name of the traitor?

Re: once again: Tahoe assault [Re: McCluskey] #338833
11/01/06 01:25 PM
11/01/06 01:25 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,019
Texas
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olivant Offline
olivant  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,019
Texas
For one, I'm wondering how many traitors there are. While Fredo may have opened the drapes, I don't believe he had the moxy or skill to knock off one or more assassins.

As far as the Miami trip goes, it's all strategy to deceive Roth. It was planned and if he doesn't follow through than he may tip off Roth that he is wise to him. Michael needs a pacific environment in which to carry out his plans. If he goes after Roth in any way, than war breaks out. It takes two to fight and Michael wasn't going to play Roth's game.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: once again: Tahoe assault [Re: McCluskey] #338835
11/01/06 01:28 PM
11/01/06 01:28 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,512
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,512
AZ
"Who killed the Tahoe shooters" is the Number-One unanswered question on these boards. Some have theories, but none are definitive.

As for why Michael left Tahoe suddenly:

Michael knew that, although he was the target, his enemy had no scruples about killing Kay or anyone who got in the way at Tahoe. So, by removing himself from Tahoe, he removed the target. More important: by sucking up to Roth, he bought precious time to protect himself and his family. His guiding principle, as he told Hagen before he left, was: think as those around you think.

Michael saw that Roth was very careful to mask his role in the Tahoe attack. Roth waited for Anthony’s party because he knew that Pentangeli would be there, contentious over Michael’s support of the Rosato Brothers. Frankie therefore had perfect motivation to kill Michael, and would have made a perfect patsy. Since the attack failed, Michael figured that Roth would have to strike again quickly, before Michael figured out that Pentangeli wasn’t the guilty party. By visiting Roth in Miami, by affirming that their deal was still good, and most important, by agreeing to go to Havana, Michael was helping Roth to find a reason to keep him alive until then, and to leave his family alone.

Michael alive in Havana would provide Roth with an airtight alibi: Roth would stage the father/son routine at the birthday party, and turn over his empire to Michael in front of many witnesses, so he’d look like he had no reason whatsoever to kill Michael. And as the most powerful gringo in Havana, Roth could easily arrange to have his pals in the Cuban government assassinate Michael and get rid of his body. If anyone asked after the missing Michael, Roth could speculate that he’d been caught in the crossfire between the government and the rebels. Or that rival gangsters whacked him because they were jealous that Roth planned to give him nearly all of the Havana empire. The only thing Roth overlooked was that Michael was onto his game and, with “Sicilian cunning,” outwitted him.
Even Michael’s choice of bodyguard was designed to mislead Roth. He didn’t take Neri and/or Rocco with him because, at that point, he couldn’t be sure of their loyalty. And, by bringing Buscetta to Havana, Michael was signaling Roth that he still didn’t know who the traitor was—but it obviously wasn’t Roth because Michael was there with Roth. He had accomplished what he told Frankie he’d do: Roth was relaxed, confident that their deal was still good—and off his guard. Bravo, Michael!


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: once again: Tahoe assault [Re: Turnbull] #338844
11/01/06 02:05 PM
11/01/06 02:05 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso Offline
Consigliere to the Stars
dontomasso  Offline
Consigliere to the Stars

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
Originally Posted By: Turnbull
"Who killed the Tahoe shooters" is the Number-One unanswered question on these boards. Some have theories, but none are definitive.

Michael saw that Roth was very careful to mask his role in the Since the attack failed, Michael figured that Roth would have to strike again quickly, before Michael figured out that Pentangeli wasn’t the guilty party.


TB great post as always, but there is also another component to the visit to Miami. You are correct that Michael figured that Roth might conclude that he would realize that Frank Pentangeli was not the guilty party. Accordingly Michael was also steering Roth away from coming to such a realization. He deliberatley misleads Roth by asking his permission to kill Pentangeli, which is something he would do out of respect for Roth and to insure that Roth knew who did it, that there would not be a war over it, etc (with all the bad blood with the Rosatos and Frank, Roth would have needed Michael's assurance that the assassination of Pentangeli was a Corleone sanctioned operation so that "things" on the street would continue to run smoothly).


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: once again: Tahoe assault [Re: dontomasso] #339672
11/03/06 10:58 PM
11/03/06 10:58 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 92
BadaBing Offline
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BadaBing  Offline
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Posts: 92
All right, here is my theory...


We know from earlier scripts and Fredo's "I didn't know it was gonna be a hit.." line that Fredo was mislead in some way by Roth. The earlier script indicate that Roth/Ola said they were going to kidnap Michael.

We also know that the gunmen were killed by having their throats cut.

What if....

Fredo is everything MIchael said about him but if he believes they are going to kidnap his brother he is going to insist on protecting Michael in some way.

Fredo goes out and recruits some men on his own, insisting they meet outside his window to participate in the kidnapping. Ola's men have to kill them WITHOUT making a sound, so they cut their throats, ditch them and then proceed with the shooting. The shooters then escape from the island on their boat as planned.


CHRISTIAN
You desecrated a classic film. This is worse than "Godfather III."
GIBSON
Whoa, whoa, hey, whoa! Let's not say things we can't take back.
CHRISTIAN
All right, all right, I'm sorry.
Re: once again: Tahoe assault [Re: BadaBing] #339893
11/04/06 08:59 PM
11/04/06 08:59 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,019
Texas
O
olivant Offline
olivant  Offline
O

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,019
Texas
Again, this gives Fredo an awful lot of brains and moxy which I don't think he had much of either.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: once again: Tahoe assault [Re: BadaBing] #339901
11/04/06 09:24 PM
11/04/06 09:24 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
AppleOnYa Offline
AppleOnYa  Offline

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
If Fredo is interested in 'protecting' Michael then he's not going to go along with a kidnapping in the first place.

And Fredo? Recruiting his own men ???



Only thing Fredo was capable of 'recruiting' were coctail waitresses. Two at a time.

Apple


A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.

- THOMAS JEFFERSON

Re: once again: Tahoe assault [Re: AppleOnYa] #339904
11/04/06 11:12 PM
11/04/06 11:12 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 19,066
OH, VA, KY
Mignon Offline
Mama Mig
Mignon  Offline
Mama Mig

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 19,066
OH, VA, KY
Originally Posted By: AppleOnYa


Only thing Fredo was capable of 'recruiting' were coctail waitresses. Two at a time.

Apple


Also Banana daiquiri's.


Dylan Matthew Moran born 10/30/12



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