A lot of interest is already starting to bubble in regards to fantasy football this year - Turi is already going stir-crazy with the end of the Arena football season. :p

Not meaning at all to be presumptuous, but unless someone else wanted to do it, I'll commish the league again this year.

I just had a couple of questions that I wanted your take on:

First question: ESPN.com or Yahoo?

I've never done Fantasy Football on ESPN (other than Pick'em and that stupid Gridiron Challenge ) and have usually done the team/live draft type league on Yahoo. ESPN is free this year and I know some of you care about your Uber points, whatever that is [cough] JG [/cough].

Second question: Point-based system vs. Head-to Head?

The past couple of years, we've done head-to-head. You're matched up each week against a particular opponent in the league. You try to outscore the other for a "win" and you make the playoffs based on your won-loss record.

The points format is different. You don't play against an opponent. Your team just accumulates points and your placement is based on how much you score. Teams with most points by the end of the season wins the championship.

There are pros and cons to both formats. I think Head-to-Head creates for more excitement because there is a specific opponent you can focus on - much like real football. Trash talking is much easier and more fun in this format.

The downside, as plaw pointed out last year, is that unlike real football, you have no control over what your opponent scores. The worst case example is that you score the 2nd most amount of points every week (compared to the rest of the league), but each week, your opponent just happened to score more. By the end of the season, you'll have the 1st or 2nd most amount of points, which usually means you're one of the best teams (no matter what your record says), but due to the happenstance of your opponent each week, you're winless and not making the playoffs.

I think a form of this happened last year when Plaw was in the top 4 in points (4 make the playoffs), but didn't get into the post-season. Plaw will probably remember better the exact situation.

In any case, that's the risk you take playing in this format.

Although the points format may not be as fun trash-talking wise, there are no ambiguities as to who is the best team.

Shouldn't we be limiting the voting to only those who are gonna play?

Why don't we sign up the players first, and then vote?

I assume that people who aren't playing won't vote - the only ones who care enough to vote are those playing. Same outcome either way.

There's no "Doesn't matter to me" option. :p

I play all the free ESPN games (see other thread), and will play where ever y'all decided for the head-to-head game. (The "points game" you're talking about - is that the same game ignoring W-L record?? I wouldn't vote for straying against standard game rules cuz I don't whine about points -- you could act like a man! What's da matta wit you? :p )

is it alright if i make my case for head to head league in this thread and just copy and paste my post from the other thread? i don't want to step on anyone's toes. i've seen from the general discussion what a disaster that can be.

The other problem with the head-to-head format is the unbalanced schedule.

I'm voting for cumulative points.

You still have to make the important decisions about who to draft, who to sit or play each week, trades, and free agent pick-ups.

Plus, we can pay out the whole 17 week schedule without leaving out the last two weeks because if you think that teams that have already made the playoffs might be resting some of the stars that you have on your team, you can make free agent moves accordingly, which actually adds another dimension to the game.

I would agree that there'd be an element of fun missing without the head-to-head games each week and the accompanying trash talking, but I think that's a small price to pay for eliminating the elements of luck that are inherent in the unbalanced schedule and the draw of who you happen to be playing each week.

We could also run two leagues, one for each format.

I'll play either way, of course, and would prefer Yahoo, only because I'm familiar with that format already. Are there any differences that you know of?

Yep JG - points based ignores W-L record because there is no W-L record (since you're not up against anybody). Depends on who you ask, but some people think of point-based as the "standard" system.

Copy and paste away, JB.

There are no "standard game rules".

A cumulative points game is a different format. Everything (I presume) is the same as the way we've played, except that you don't have an "opponent" each week and a W-L record.

The winner is the team with the most points at the end of the season.

We could play baseball the same way. The only difference between doing it that way and the way we play now is we would have a draft at the beginning of the year so everyone has different players.

I wouldn't care if we set up two leagues. Just me, but I think I'll only play in one - with the eliminator and pick'em (not to mention basketball), too many leagues to keep track of.

I've never played the live draft/team format on ESPN, although I suspect it'll be similar to Yahoo's. According to JB, ESPN isn't very user-friendly.

I prefer Yahoo, but I only threw it up there for the Uber Whores! :p

Still trying to clarify here, sorry....

Is there a specific "For Whiners Only" version of this game, or would it be the same game as always, but just totally ignoring the W-L record?

Why not play as usual, head-to-head, and have a normal winner and a points winner?

Would that satisfy the cry babies? :p

i prefer yahoo also because of my familiarity as well. i haven't used the league manager feature on espn for 3 three years, but they only let you change certain rules, which my friends and i didn't like because it can make a big difference in the rankings depending on how many points a passing td is worth, how many players start at each position, etc. it might be different now, i'm not sure. i know they're making changes for the upcoming football season. regarding the format, i like head to head because of the "start fresh" approach each week. even if you're near the bottom of the standings its still fun to beat one of your friends who's battling for a playoff spot come the end of the year. in a points league, people tend to become inactive a lot faster because if you're buried at the bottom of the standings, it doesn't matter how you bad you beat the hell out of everyone else in week 14, you're still out of luck. that's the one thing i hate about fantasy sports, is leagues with owners who quit participating after the first couple weeks. you guys know about this league more than i do though, so if you don't think that will be a problem, i don't see any reason why a points league wouldn't still be a blast.

I see what you're trying to clarify JG, finally...

The points-league is a totally different league from Head-to-Head. The Yahoo format is different - on the right side of the screen, you won't have the "match-ups" listed. The ranking will be based on points, not win percentage (actually, there is NO win percentage in this format).

So in your words - yes, there is a specific "For Whiners Only" version of this game!

You do bring up a good point though - we can crown both champions in the same game. I suspect though, that if the points-based champion is not the same as the Head-to-Head champion, such person might complain that no Yahoo page exists that shows that he is in first place; that no Yahoo page exists that he can print out for all to see!

You talkin' to me?

I had the fourth highest point total last year, which tells me that including drafting, trading, weekly decisions on who to play and who to sit, and free agent pick-ups -- the things that I had absolute control over -- I had the fourth best team, and/or was the fourth best manager. I don't see how you could argue any other way, yet I still finished fifth, and out of the playoffs.

The fact that I finished fifth was based solely on the unbalanced schedule and the point totals of my opponents each week -- the things that I had absolutely no control over -- which added a huge element of luck to the game which, since we can eliminate, I think we should.

You know I always prefer a game of skill to a game of luck.

Even though there's a large element of luck in the baseball game we play, like when a guy does really poorly or really well unexpectedly, you can't really blame "luck", since you picked the guy.
That's another benefit to a points league over head-to-head.

Although I don't think we've had that problem yet, there's always a chance of someone losing interest in a head-to-head league and failing to bench or replace an injured player, thus making it easier for their opponent to win that week.

In a points league, it doesn't matter if people lose interest and stop playing. Their decisions (or lack of decisions) don't affect the other players.

for the sake of fairness, i better talk about the benefits of a points league as well. in one of my leagues last year, i scored the most points(which as plaw points out, is the only thing you can control in fantasy football, therefore giving me the best team in the league). unfortunately, i was unlucky with the schedule and finished with the second worst record. this is an extreme case and very rarely happens, but it does happen. thankfully i got that season out of the way, and probably don't have to worry about it happening ever again in my lifetime. in a points league i would have won because the players i drafted scored the most points, which is in essence the whole point of fantasy sports. now i didn't complain at all because even though my $150 was wasted on a great team, it was a keeper league, so i'll still have most of my good team back next year, so i should finish near the top. but if it was a yearly league, i might have been a little perturbed. so a points league is the fairest way to ensure that the best team wins because it takes the element of scheduling luck out of the equation. team a won't have a worse week than team b when team a scores more points, just because team b played the worst team in the league. i just think that in a league without any money involved(at least i assume), the friendly trash talk and active ownership that occur in a head to head league are more valuable to the league than making sure that the team that scores only 5 more points than everyone else during the season won. because the 5 total point victory occurs a lot exponentially more frequently than the score the most points and lose scenario.

plaw is right about players not participating only hurting themselves in a points league. i was thinking more along the lines of trading, though my post didn't really make this clear at all. i've got a group of 9-11 friends who do leagues together for pretty much everything (except nascar), so inactivity isn't really a problem in the leagues i care about. we have a lot of trades in our league and i enjoy that because then everything doesn't hinge on the draft. the draft is still the most important event, but it's fun to make deals to fill holes created by injury, nab that sleeper from an unsuspecting owner, or upgrade a position of weakness by dealing from position of strength. when owners become inactive, it slashes the players available to trade for. there is still the waiver wire, but in a good 12 team league you rarely find anything more than a servicable part-time starter. it also throws things like the faulk strategy out the window, because you can have the three best rbs in football, but if you can only start 2 and no one will trade it doesn't do you any good. but like i said, i'm excited to participate and make some new friends regardless of what format we use. it will still be fun.

Okay, now that's clear - I can see the benefit of a Points league. But I just know it wouldn't be as much fun or nerve-wracking (to me, at least) as head-to-head. That's what wanted me to play the past couple years -- going against someone new each week.

In any event, set up whatever you guys decide then I'll decide. With all the games I got going on, it'll be hard enough to add the 3-4 ESPN NFL games in... (especially for no Uber points! )

That's really the only argument you can make for a head-to-head format.

If you're in 8th place in a ten team league, and 150 points behind going into the last week or two, the only fun left is the trash talking and the chance to beat someone and knock them out of the playoffs or something.

Still, I prefer a game in which luck is as little a factor as possible.

you must be a blackjack player than plaw, judging from your reply and ch. 2 of the sequel. i have a feeling you and i are going to get along fine.

Blackjack and poker.

Get in the fantasy baseball game. You can practice for four days, and be ready for a new game starting after the all-star break.

and if he's MAN enough he can get in fantasy bass fishing pick 6 challenge :p

Nice to know that you're reading it.

More than I can say for some of the people around here who still owe me a book report.

I've been busy w/ work and, more importantly, my fantasy teams! Trying to distract me? It'll be a good All-Star Break read.

Busy with your fantasy teams?

Hey, I could win easily if I devoted two hours a day to picking my team like you seem to be doing. :p

But I've been busy writing a book.

[/QUOTE] [/qb]and if he's MAN enough he can get in fantasy bass fishing pick 6 challenge :p [/QB][/QUOTE]

do i pick the fisherman or the fish? i don't know anything about fishing myself much less who is the best fisherman. but it sounds like it would be fun for those who know what's going on. i guess it wouldn't be much different than my throwing money away for fantasy golf during the four majors each year.

how do i go about doing this? i need to distract myself from my current team. i'm only a game out of the playoffs right now and schilling will be coming back soon so things are looking up, but god has it been stressful. one week arod and teixera single handedly carry my team, the next all it would take is one hr a piece from each and they can't do it. it's a 5X5 head to head league. it's the first time we've done it in this format, so it has been a learning experience.

The link is in JG's first post of the fantasy baseball thread.

Read the "How to Play" section. If you have any questions, post 'em there.

Nope, I'm watching the CFL now.

Can't we just quit messing around and get both an ESPN and Yahoo (either way is fine) game going.

I second the vote of Plaw.

Also, I don't care whether we use ESPN.com or Yahoo, but I prefer Yahoo simply since I'm used to their games, I'd have to register with ESPN, which is no big deal. But Yahoo would be preferable, especially if people make more use of Yahoo messenger accounts for instant trash talking. :p

Let's just git'r done and get the draft started, I will gladly exchange my first born in a trade for McGahee if I cannot get him in the draft.

Count me in. I voted for the W-L format.

Can I have Peyton Manning again?

You gonna actually play? :p