Well Clemens won it & why am I not surprised. I just feel bad for Randy Johnson. He had a crappy team ALL year in Arizona & he had better numbers than Roger & he gets shafted.

Roger Randy

W-L 18-4 16-14

ERA 2.98 2.60

IP 214.1 245.2

H 169 177

BB 79 44

SO 218 290

I mean, Randy had a lower ERA, more innings pitched, only 8 hits more than Roger, fewer walks and more strikeouts & STILL doesn't get it. Man, who is in charge of this voting anyway!?

It'll all be good for Big Unit when he joins the Yankees in '05.

Probably, because of what you said before. He plays for a terrible team. This gave him a bad record when comparing it to Clemens. Clemens was also on the hottest team in baseball in august and september making it look like he had something to do with it.

Clemens deserves it. He was the best pitcher in the NL this past season.

Isn't the Cy Young just for who is the best "pitcher", not really about how well the team does? My understanding is it's not the MVP award, so why should what team he's on matter. The fact that Johnson was on such a suck a$$ team and won the amount of games he won should attest to his abilities.

What award was out there before "Cy Young" was around? What award, if any, did he win?

The award does not always go to the "Best Pitcher".

It almost always goes to the pitcher who has the "Best Year".

There have been some un-deserving Cy Young winners over the years.

Baltimore pitcher Steve Stone won it in 1980, when he went 25-7 with a 3.23 E.R.A. for a team that won 100 games.

Meanwhile, Oakland pitcher Mike Norris went 22-9 with a 2.54 for a team that won 83 games.

The Cy Young voters are almost always unduly influenced by gaudy W-L records. Studies have shown that all things being equal, the biggest single factor that goes into a pitcher's W-L record is offensive support.

Also, as Bill James has pointed out, a lot of what we perceive as good pitching is actually defense. The only things that a pitcher is in complete control of are strikeouts, walks allowed, home runs allowed, and hit batsmen.

Not sure what that has to do with the topic, though.....

That's arguable.

If I had to pick one NL pitcher from last season to win me one game that I had to have, I would pick Johnson over Clemens easily.

I'd pick Johnson over Clemens just for the fact he usually had better fantasy league points.

True. But the main reason he was picked so often, I think, was his low salary cap value.

Given the same cap value as Clemens, more people might have gone with the Rocket on days that they both pitched because Roger was more likely to pick up the extra five points for the win.

But didn't Randy average more strike outs? That would be worth more then the guaranteed 5 points for a win.

You're right, Beth, and it's not even close.

Johnson made 35 starts, and averaged 19.2 fantasy points per game.

Clemens started 33 times, and averaged only 15.6

Even at a higher cap value, Johnson was worth more than Clemens.

Take a picture of this and frame it in gold. These words may never be printed by plaw again.

Just out of curiousity, I did Johann Santana, the likely AL Cy Young winner.

He came in at 19.29, vs. Johnson's 19.23

As Beth stated, because Randy played for such a crappy team all year & STILL put up better numbers than Clemens should easily give him the award. I think I heard that in 13 or 15 of his starts, Arizona only scored 2 runs or less. Did Roger have that problem in Houston? I think not. Give Randy the line up that Clemens had in Houston & he'd have KILLED Roger this year statistically. It just sucks when a man who deserves an award gets robbed. That just burns my ass!

Looks pretty sweet to me!

Clemens deserved his 7th Cy Young award. I could see Johnson being legit in winning the trophy, but if I voted for the award, I would have taken the Rocket over the Big Unit.

Fact is, are the Astros with Clemens better than the Astros without Clemens last season?

Clemens helped the Astros finally win its first playoff series in the history of the franchise.

Ah, but would the Astors have been better with Johnson than Clemens?? I say yes!

Actually, remember that Johnson was once traded to the Astros, the same season they went to the playoffs but got s*itcanned by the Padres(and in the offseason The Big Unit became a FA and signed with the Diamondbacks).....fact is, the Astros with Clemens did something that the Astros with Johnson couldn't.......win a playoff series.

Yeah, but again, two different teams, with different positional strengths. This 2004 team is probably the "best" Astros team assembled to date.

Thank you Double-J! Are you kidding me. This year's Astros could KILL the year that Johnson was with the Astros. Talk about apples & oranges. I simply asked if Randy would have done better with the Astros THIS YEAR than Clemens. I still say yes!