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Re: Top 25 Baseball Players
#243804
08/25/04 05:43 PM
08/25/04 05:43 PM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 445 Indiana
Neri
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 445
Indiana
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I dont have time to list my top 25 right now, but I dont see how you think Palmeiro even deserves to mentioned in the same breath as hitters like Ted Williams, Mickey Mantle, and Joe DiMaggio. He is good and has had a very consistent career. He deserves to make the HOF. But he isnt on the same level as those others I mentioned earlier.
"As far back as I can remember, I've always wanted to be a gangster." - Henry Hill
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Re: Top 25 Baseball Players
#243805
08/25/04 08:26 PM
08/25/04 08:26 PM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,323 Happy Valley
Freddie C.
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,323
Happy Valley
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C - Ivan Rodriguez, Josh Gibson, Mike Piazza 1B - Lou Gehrig, Raphael Palmiero, Albert Pujols 2B - Nap Lajoie, Rogers Hornsby, Roberto Alomar SS - Alex Rodriguez, Cal Ripken Jr, Ozzie Smith 3B - Mike Schmidt, Scott Rolen, Brooks Robinson OF - Barry Bonds, Ted Williams, Vladimir Guerrero OF - Willie Mays, Ty Cobb, Ken Griffey Jr OF - Babe Ruth, Hank Aaron, Mickey Mantle
one more... Pete Rose
"The Dewey Decimal System... What a scam that was!"
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Re: Top 25 Baseball Players
#243806
08/25/04 11:30 PM
08/25/04 11:30 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 12,724
Double-J
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 12,724
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Originally posted by Freddie C.: C - Ivan Rodriguez, Josh Gibson, Mike Piazza 1B - Lou Gehrig, Raphael Palmiero, Albert Pujols 2B - Nap Lajoie, Rogers Hornsby, Roberto Alomar SS - Alex Rodriguez, Cal Ripken Jr, Ozzie Smith 3B - Mike Schmidt, Scott Rolen, Brooks Robinson OF - Barry Bonds, Ted Williams, Vladimir Guerrero OF - Willie Mays, Ty Cobb, Ken Griffey Jr OF - Babe Ruth, Hank Aaron, Mickey Mantle
one more... Pete Rose Adding to your list: C - Jorge Posada, Johnny Bench, Yogi Berra (though he could be outfield too ) 2B - Phil Rizzuto OF - Gary Sheffield, no question. --- As far as Palmeiro being #10, no way. I don't see him beating out anybody else below him on the list...
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Re: Top 25 Baseball Players
#243807
08/26/04 08:37 AM
08/26/04 08:37 AM
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 15,058 The Slippery Slope
plawrence
RIP StatMan
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RIP StatMan
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 15,058
The Slippery Slope
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I have a few problems with making these kinds of lists....
I don't think I'm qualified to comment on how "great" players were if I never saw them play. I became a real baseball fan in the early 60's. I saw plenty of Mays, Mantle, and Aaron, for example, but how can I compare them with, let's say, Williams, Musial, and Dimaggio, whose careers I just missed, or from an even earlier era, Ruth or Cobb?
The only way to compare them is through their statistics, which have to be looked at and evaluated in the context of the era in which they played.
Two examples:
The late 1920's and early 1930's were a great era for hitters. Many Hall of Famers compiled their amazing offensive statistics during this time.
In 1930
The National League's league batting average was .303 The league E.R.A. was 4.97 The American Leahue batting average was .288 The league E.R.A. was 4.65 Bill Terry of the NY Giants hit .401 45 major league regulars hit .300 or better
Compare that with 1968
The N.L. batting average was .243 The league E.R.A was 2.99 The A.L batting average was .230 The league E.R.A. was 2.98 Carl Yastrzemski led the A.L. in batting average, hitting .301 Out of 74 pitchers who qulaified for the E.R.A. title, 49 had an E.R.A. of 3.00 or lower Seven had an E.R.A. of less than 2.00, led by Bob Gibson's 1.12 and Luis Tiant's 1.60
My point is, isn't Yastrzemski's .301 in 1968 nearly as impressive as Terry's .401 in 1930? But nobody remembers Yaz's 1968 as a "great" year.
In 1930, Lefty Grove led the A.L. in E.R.A. with a 2.54. the guy who finished second was at 3.31. In 1930, Dazzy Vance led the N.L. with 2.61. The guy who was second was at 3.76.
Aren't Grove's and Vance's performance in 1930 nearly as impressive as Gibson's in 1968? But nobody remembers them as having great years, either.
Now, we're in another big offensive era, 1994 to the present. How will today's players be evaluated? How do we evaluate the stats of Pujols Guerrero, and A Rod? Sure, they're the best hitters today, but how do we know if they were better hitters than guys who played in a time when offense was less predominant?
"Difficult....not impossible"
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Re: Top 25 Baseball Players
#243808
08/26/04 09:18 AM
08/26/04 09:18 AM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,619 NJ
Don Marco
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,619
NJ
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It is hard to compare players of different eras, especially with the "live ball", small parks, etc.. Of course, the cream always seems to rise to the top and there are a few that come to mind that always make the list. I have trouble with players I don't know a lot about - Rogers Hornsby comes to mind. I have an uncle that tells me he is the greatest 2nd baseman ever, but in my mind I'll take Joe Morgan.
1st Lou Gehrig 2nd Joe Morgan SS Alex Rodriguez or Derek Jeter 3rd Mike Schmidt Catcher Johnny Bench LF Ted Williams CF Willie Mays RF Hank Aaron DH Babe Ruth (I'm guessing Ruth wouldn't mind the DH rule)
For pitchers I'd like Tom Seaver, Steve Carlton, Bob Gibson, and Greg Maddox (I know there are great old timers like Mathewson and Cy Young, but I think I could win with this team and rotation!) Give me Nolan Ryan and Dennis Eckersly in relief and I'm ready to play.
"After all, we are not communists" Christopher Moltisanti: You ever think what a coincidence it is that Lou Gehrig died of Lou Gehrig's disease?
Tony Soprano: Yeah well, when you're married, you'll understand the importance of fresh produce.
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