First of all, I'm new to the board. I've been here a few times just to read and finally decided I'd throw in my two cents, so hello all.
My question is about Sullivan County, NY, and if you guys know of any activity or anything written about this area. I moved here a couple of years with my wife, and I have heard rumors that White Lake was used as a dumping ground for bodies from the city. It sounds a little far fetched, but I don't know if you guys have heard anything about the area. Thanks for your help.

Jon

Welcome, Jon!
I haven't heard anything about Sullivan County as a Mob burial ground. As you probably know, Sullivan County was most famous for the many Jewish resort hotels that flourished there between roughly 1900 and 1970. Those hotels were the "burial grounds" for many comedians and other entertainers who never made it to the big time.

It was, supposedly, used by Murder, Inc. in the 20's and 30's as a burial ground. I don't know any details.

According to a book titled "Gangster #2," which is the story of Abner Longy Zwillman, Waxy Gordon supposedly hid out in a hunting lodge that he owned in Sullivan County, after Dutch Shultz's men attempted to kill him.

Years ago the Catskill mountains in Sullivan County was alleged to have been the training grounds for members of the Jewish Defense League & the Jewish Defense Organization, which in my opinion were the jewish versions of La Cosa Nostra.


Don Cardi

Thuggery, yes. Rackets, no.

Turnbull, ironically, one of the few remaining resorts had a huge fire yesterday. The main building of the Villa Roma resort was destroyed. I hear they were preparing for Passover and the bakery door got locked and before they knew it it was out of control. But yes, there are still reminders of what was here: Grossingers, the Concord, Raleigh, etc etc.

Boy, just the mention of The Concord brings back a lot memories from many years ago. When I was a kid my father used to bring me up there for some of his Teamster conventions. I remember meeting Josephine Hoffa ( Jimmy's wife )at the concord, when I was a kid.

I remember staying there as a kid and never understanding, at the time, why I could NOT have bacon for breakfast!


Don Cardi

There are a lot of dumping grounds throughout the Hudson Valley. Greenwood Lake, Seven Lakes Drive, and Yankee Lake are a few reputed places. There are alleged wiseguys living in the area and once in a great while our regional paper, The Times Herald Record, tries to interview someone under indictment, but on the whole they're pretty quiet confining themselves to small communities throughout the area. We have had issues with toxic waste dumping in landfills (legal and otherwise), supposedly done by the mob. This doesn't surprise me.

I have a friend who went into business with another guy here in Orange county and they apprently stepped on a few toes. One day my friend runs into this guy, an aquaintence of his business partner, who insists on taking my friend for a ride. So they go up to the woods, down a dirt road and my friend is shitting bricks, but as they drive it's clear that this guy knows about their business. They pull up to my friend's partner's car and the guy opens the trunk. There was my friend's business partner.

Not quite alive.

So at this point my friend soils himself and the guy turns to him and says, "You don't want to be in this business no more," then gets in his car and drives away. Needless to say, my friend dissolved the business and that was the end of that.

That's a delightful little story, Jason.....

Just to clear a small, somewhat unrelated, point:

The Sullivan County hotels of yore - Grossingers, The Concord, The Nevele, etc. - are actually not in the Catskill Mountains.

In fact, they're not really in any mountains.

You could, I guess, say that they're in the "foothills" of the Catskills, but that's about it.

The mountains themselves don't really begin until the northern reaches of Sullivan County, at least 20 miles or so up Route 42.

What happened, though, was that there was an original round of Catskill Mountain hotels - The Catskill Mountain House at North Lake in Greene County ( http://www.catskillarchive.com/mtnhouse/index.htm ) - good pictures there (It’s a very easy walk from North Lake to the exact spot where the hotel stood, and the hike north along the escarpment is wonderful) - The Overlook Mountain House near Woodstock, in Ulster County, The Laurel House, also near North Lake but closer to Kaaterskill Falls (another great day trip), The Grand, in Ulster County, and many others.

These hotels had their heydays in the late 1800’s, when they were considered THE place to take a summer vacation in the northeast.

The second round of "Catskill" hotels – the Sullivan County ones – just sought to capitalize on the "Catskill Mountains" name, even though they were not in the mountains themselves.

Those resorts started out as diary farms. At the turn of the 19th century, tuberculosis was the #1 killer of urban dwellers. The antidotes were thought to be fresh air, milk and sunshine--all of which were abundantly available at those Sullivan County dairy farms. So, the owners got the idea to advertise their farms as "sanitariums" and take in guests. This proved popular. In the 1920's, when some of the national prosperity trickled down to the woikin' stiffs and more people got vacations, they converted to full-time hotels.

About sanitariums in New York and in New England. Check out http://www.opacity.us. It's a website devoted to urban exploration. The creator of the Opacity site has posted several places in the New England and New York areas about abandoned insane asylums, TB hospitals, etc. The site is very informative and the Forum is very very interesting!

What about Ulster County?

Sullivan no, Ulster no, Dutchess no, Orange yes

Mario gigante, danny pagano, danny leo-westside, vinny fore-gambinos all active upstate

There are more ,what happens up state stays up state