Do you think the mafia would be in the state its in today if the Godfather movies had NOT come out? If the books were never written and the movies never screened, would it be as weakened as it is today?

I ask this because movies like the Godfather focused alot of publicity on the mafia themselves, which in turn i believe made more people want to have people in the mafia caught, and so put pressure on the government to do something about it?

Finally, do you think its a good or bad thing that the mafia isn't as powerful as it once was? E.g In the time of the Krays in London, while they were in essence bad guys, most of their violence or criminal activities was done for a 'valid' reason, either financial or some other gain, and the person involved 99% had something to do with them, i.e innocent people had nothing to do with it. But with them around they would control the other small gangs, thus stopping any needless violence. After they were jailed
any gangs here or there could do what they wanted (to anyone, innocent people included) and more often than not with no real reason behind it.
With the Mafia at the height of their power, I'm sure they would control any small time gangs which would affect their dealings or bring attention to underworld crime. Now with them declining, it leaves a gap for the small gangs to take their place, and as we all know, none of the more modern gangs have any of the honor or rules the Mafiosa of old have had.

Just like to know your opinions on this.
Grazie
Pippi

Since the Mafia is nominally a secret society, major public exposure (as in GF book and film) could, in theory, have had a negative effect. But I think not. First, many people thought the novel and film portrayed the Mafia in positive terms. Second, and more important, both appeared shortly after the Racketeer Influenced Corrupt Organization (RICO) Act passed in the US. RICO eventually made it far, far easier for prosecutors to nail Mafia bosses than had ever been possible before. Coupled with several important socio-economic factors (assimilation of Italian-Americans into society, loosening of omerta, stiffer penalties for drugs), the Mafia went into a steep decline that almost certainly had nothing to do with GF.
Pippi, you seem to believe in the myth that there's honor among thieves. There isn't. Mafiosi are interested in one thing--money. They'd sell their grandmothers' kidneys if they could. They never controlled crime of any kind in their neighborhoods, unless a rival gang threatened their own rackets. They didn't discourage drug trafficking--they aided and abetted it. While they're not gone yet, they're weaker than before, and it's a good thing, too.

Seeing as you know more about the subject, I'll accept that answer. Maybe I was wrong to link the Kray's with the Mafia as obviously there is no link. In terms of The Krays,after talking to people that knew them, i'm sure there was some honor or at least something in them which wanted to be respectable in some way for something.Unfortunately much of the crime done mowadays by small inferior gangs or people is definately worse as they dont care what they do or who they do it to.
But let me ask one more question to you Turnbull, you say there is no honor among thieves, which nowadays is 100% agreeable. But if we went back a hundred or so years to the original mafia, when Omerta wasn't even debatable, doesnt that in itself show some kind of honor. Even if its purely for their own, or family's sake?

Pippi

This is an extract from an interview with former Maffioso Dominick Montiglio.

I don't think it shows honor. To me it shows only the fear and cleverness of the bosses.

Wait 'till Plaw sees this...

Pippi, I doubt that Fat Reg and Ronnie were any more sterling characters than Jack the Hat, Cornell and any of the other villians that they knocked over--although they might have been good to their Mum.
As for the Mafia 100 years ago: What is known about them isn't very honorable. In rural Sicily, they were at their usual activities, which consisted in the main of hoarding water from the peasants and protecting big estate owners from demands for reform and justice. In America, Don Vito Cascio Ferro was preparing to set up a drugs pipeline from the Mideast and Sicily to the US. Around a century ago, a brave Italian-American NYC detective, Joe Petrosino, was murdered in Palermo on Don Vito's orders. As for omerta: About 90 years ago, the young Charlie Luciano ratted out a partner in a drug deal to escape imprisonment. While breakage of omerta wasn't pandemic as it is today, Luciano couldn't have been the only one who squealed to his advantage. Nor was Joe Valachi in his day. Mafia guys regularly made contacts in law enforcement and fed them info in return for being left alone to pursue their rackets, or for forebearance in cases of arrest. Often made guys secretly ratted out other made guys to further their own careers and derail others' careers.

Turnbull: I realise the Krays werent better than people like Jack McVitie, but as some of your examples show, the majority of people they 'knocked over' were villains themselves, whereas much of the killing done nowadays by other gangs/criminals is against innocent people with nothing to do with the persons business etc. Anyway I accept I was wrong and that there are many more valid arguments against my point. Thanks for the opinions , at least I know now.

Enzo: i take it plaw is the opinionated person on british crime? lol, I'm fine with him having something to say about it, thats what the forums are for, its just from people ive spoken to I gathered the feeling that the pointless crimes increased significantly after the bigger gangs were taken out of the picture.
I'm most definately wrong in hindsight thinking that it's a bad thing the Krays were arrested, but I cant see it as being a totally good thing considering the types of crimes and gangs that filled their place.
Maybe I got the wrong impression from people, maybe its even, after any crime is bad and I'm wrong to try and differentiate crimes from 'better' crimes etc.

Pippi