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Joey Zaza #5161
12/15/03 04:35 PM
12/15/03 04:35 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 146
Metro Detroit
Alonzo the Armless Offline OP
Made Member
Alonzo the Armless  Offline OP
Made Member
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 146
Metro Detroit
I'm rewatching the third GODFATHER and I'm curious why Joey Zaza didn't get anything in that scene where Michael appeases all the heads of the families with checks from their shares of the casinos he sold. I'm sure Michael didn't care for him, but he wanted to make sure everything was fine in the beginning when Zaza stopped by his party with that Italian-American Of The Year Award. Why did Zaza get snubbed? Was Michael so much more fond of the other gangsters in the room in Atlantic City?

Re: Joey Zaza #5162
12/15/03 04:40 PM
12/15/03 04:40 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,203
USA
Don Pope Offline
Underboss
Don Pope  Offline
Underboss
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,203
USA
the people in the room got money for how much money they put into the casinos and for how long they invested it. i guess sasa didnt put any money in the casinos cuz he didnt get a share


"Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer" -Micheal Corleone

"Suck it up, take the fall, do the time. That makes you what you are, that makes you who you are." -John Gotti

"you heard of the new chinese godfather? He made em an offer they couldnt understand" -Corrado Soprano

"Ahhh, im gonna go wash up" -Paulie Gultiari
Re: Joey Zaza #5163
12/15/03 06:31 PM
12/15/03 06:31 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,762
Anytown, USA
goombah Offline
goombah  Offline

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,762
Anytown, USA
Don't forget that Michael was still very peceptive in the first meeting with Zasa. While Michael didn't want to get involved with the beef between Vincent & Zasa, Michael probably believed Vincent's allegations:

Quote
MICHAEL

Joey. If there’s some guy running around this city saying "fuck Michael Corleone", what do we do, with a piece of shit like that? He’s a fucking dog, no?

ZASA (pauses, then)

Yes it’s true. If anyone would say such a thing, they would not be a friend. They would be a dog.
I think the later snub of Zasa by Michael was partially a result of this ecounter. I think it was also a display of trust that Michael was starting to develop with Vincent. Zasa proved that he was untrustworthy by planning the hit on the dons at the meeting. Don't forget, this elaborate plan was in place before Zasa knew that receive a cut of the money from Michael.

Re: Joey Zaza #5164
12/15/03 10:27 PM
12/15/03 10:27 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,518
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,518
AZ
This is another example of the plot weaknesses that make GFIII feeble compared with GF and II:

We have to assume that, since Zasa showed up with the other guys, he invested money with Michael as did the other guys. Therefore, he deserved to be paid off like the other guys. Is it really plausible that Michael, who was trying so desperately to "get out," would invite a war with Zasa by publicly welshing on him and humiliating him? And why would Michael do it? To avenge the attack on Vincent--which he in effect sanctioned at his party when he told Zasa that he had no quarrel with him over Vincent? And if Zasa expected to be paid, why did he arrange the helicopter attack? As a contingency in case he didn't get paid? Or did he think he would be paid off, then walk out seconds before the helicopter attacked? Is any of this plausible?
Sure, all this makes for one of the (few) dramatic action scenes in III. But it has a hasty, implausible, almost cartoonish feel to it, imo.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Joey Zaza #5165
12/16/03 10:33 AM
12/16/03 10:33 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 146
Metro Detroit
Alonzo the Armless Offline OP
Made Member
Alonzo the Armless  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 146
Metro Detroit
Thanks, Turnbull, I keep thinking the problem is with me not understanding. I'm continuing rewatching GODFATHER III and it still bugs me. The resposes so far still don't really answer it well enough. The other gangsters at the meeting can't be that much more trustworthy than Joey Sasa. Why point him out and start antagonizing him when you're trying to get out of the business?

Plus, why would Michael be so insulted if Joey said "F--k Michael Corleone" behind his back. He himself says not to be angry with his enemies. He's supposed to think like a businessman and stay emotionless. Surely, he's not naiive enough to think that the other heads of the family and enforcers have nothing but good things to say about him behind his back.

Re: Joey Zaza #5166
12/16/03 10:58 AM
12/16/03 10:58 AM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 15,058
The Slippery Slope
plawrence Offline
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plawrence  Offline
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The Slippery Slope
I think we have to assume that since he was offered no share of the "casino money" at the meeting, that Zasa had invested nothing in the casinos to begin with. I would guess that when the monies were invested (we have to figure that in its correct historical context, this would have been some time in the 1950's, when most of the "first round" of Vegas hotels and casinos were built, some 20 or more years before GF 3 takes palce), Zasa was nothing more than an upstart--not the head of a family prepared to make large investments.

So that raises the question of what was he doing at the meeting in the first place? Perhaps he was invited simply as as gesture of respect. It was Zasa, after all, who took over the Corleone Family rackets in NY, so that would make him a fairly powerful Don, even if he wasn't a member of The Commission.

I'd guess that Don Altobello had something to do with Joey's invitation.


"Difficult....not impossible"
Re: Joey Zaza #5167
12/16/03 12:58 PM
12/16/03 12:58 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 110
Berlin, Germany
consiGliera Offline
Made Member
consiGliera  Offline
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Posts: 110
Berlin, Germany
Quote
Originally posted by Turnbull:
This is another example of the plot weaknesses that make GFIII feeble compared with GF and II:
(...) Is it really plausible that Michael, who was trying so desperately to "get out," would invite a war with Zasa by publicly welshing on him and humiliating him?
and that´s it exactly. if we know one thinG abot the world of The Godfather, it´s that a public humiliation or snubbinG will not Go unresponded. especially not with a Guy that is so obsessed with his reputation and imaGe as Zasa is.

Alonzo (nice name, i love Tod BrowninG
grin ), i think it miGht be a plothole, but it´s possible that Zasa wasn´t one of the casino investors in the first place. the beGinninG of GF III suGGests that Zasa, althouGh a decent mobster, is not one of the biG shots. the part of business HE was involved in was the part that Michael had left behind a lonG time aGo. that´s my Guess. but in General, i´d stick with the plothole.

GreetinGs, consiG.


"i understand you have to deal with a lot of people who try to seem more important than they are. In my case the reverse is true." -Tom Hagen
Re: Joey Zaza #5168
12/16/03 02:40 PM
12/16/03 02:40 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 775
No where
B
Boss_of_bosses Offline
Underboss
Boss_of_bosses  Offline
B
Underboss
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 775
No where
I think that Zasa didn't get a share because of his involvement with drugs.

Re: Joey Zaza #5169
12/16/03 03:09 PM
12/16/03 03:09 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 417
Washington, DC
Valadius Offline
Capo
Valadius  Offline
Capo
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 417
Washington, DC
This is one of the easiest answers. Zasa put no money into the casinoes. That's all. He was just muscle who assumed control of the Corleone interests in New York. He was not a don. That's extremely obvious. Notice no one called him Don Zasa, or whatever. He was just muscle! Easy answer.

Re: Joey Zaza #5170
12/16/03 04:03 PM
12/16/03 04:03 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 146
Metro Detroit
Alonzo the Armless Offline OP
Made Member
Alonzo the Armless  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 146
Metro Detroit
Thanks, Valadius. But now I have more questions:

Why was Joey Sasa invited to that meeting? If he was the only one with no investment, why was he insulted when he received no check. And why wasn't the reason he got no money explained to him?

Re: Joey Zaza #5171
12/16/03 04:28 PM
12/16/03 04:28 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 45
Francesca28 Offline
Wiseguy
Francesca28  Offline
Wiseguy
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Posts: 45
I think that Don Altobello invited Joey, or Micheal did, out of respect, as Plawrence said, and Joey just didn't invest in the casinos.

Re: Joey Zaza #5172
12/17/03 07:39 AM
12/17/03 07:39 AM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 292
Dunfermline, Scotland
The Scottish Don Offline
Capo
The Scottish Don  Offline
Capo
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 292
Dunfermline, Scotland
Indeed, which is why he should not have "expected" any cash return at the meeting.

The whole thing was set up to result in the helicopter attack, and the following fall out from that.

Sloppy really and would not have been fit for inclusion in the previous two in my opinion.

Re: Joey Zaza #5173
12/20/03 06:49 PM
12/20/03 06:49 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 417
Washington, DC
Valadius Offline
Capo
Valadius  Offline
Capo
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 417
Washington, DC
IMO Zasa was there to provide protection, since, of course, he was just muscle.


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