Hey,

Where is the best place to find Italian/Sicilian slang? Preferbly with wav. files so I can hear pronunciations...

BTW, I am Italian, at least partially. Only thing is any of my Italian relatives are still in Italy...one portion of them are Sicilian...not sure about the others. I'm researching my geneolgy to try and find out. (On an OT note, anyone know who "much" (or percent, lacking good word) Sicilian one has to be to get into the Mafia? Thanks)


-Ethereal

I found this website a while ago. It doesn't have a pronunciation guide but I thought you might like it any way. http://www.dieli.net/SicilyPage/SicilianLanguage/Vocabulary.html

I also found a few Sicilian saying here http://www.ninegoodteeth.com/sayings.html

To be in most Mafia Families, you must be 100% full blood. Exceptions are usually rare. Such as Al Capone's mob.

The Don Ferro

Don Ferro, it hasn't been like that for a long long time, well in America anyway.

Al Capone was rare for his day being Neapolitan, especially for a boss, not from Sicily when the Mobs in New York were pretty much all Sicilian at the time with obvious gangs of Irish and Jewish being main rivals.

Soon it changed from being 100% Sicilian, to Italian and then just having Italian on your fathers side. For example, John Gotti, a Neopolitan from his fathers side was head of the Gambino's after the hit on Paul Castellano. But his mother was Jewish.

The old days are gone now and i'm sure they're desperate for good quiet members nowadays. Infact they'd probably induct anyone whos surname ends in a vowel in this day and age.

Interesting how this thread has evolved into the lineage of made Mafiosi:
Nearly all American made men were either born in Sicily or had two Sicilian parents until Charlie Luciano began his rise. Though born in Sicily, Luciano was thoroughly modern and thoroughly American. He took talent wherever he found it. He was mentored by a Jewish gangster (Arnold Rothstein) and had as his closest associate and adviser another Jew (Meyer Lansky). He also started the practice of "making" Italians who didn't have 100% Sicilian lineage (though non-Italians still couldn't be "made"). His successor as Don was Frank Costello (Calabrian), whose successor was Vito Genovese (Neapolitan).
Capone was born in the US of Neapolitan parents. His mentor and predecessor, Johnny Torrio, also was Neapolitan. However, the Chicago "Outfit" under Torrio and Capone was not a Mafia family. There was a Mafia in Chicago, called the "Unione Siciliano" that was restricted to full-blooded Sicilians. It was like a civic association with muscle, and in no way competed with Capone's rackets.
John Gotti did not have a Jewish mother--both his grandparents were born in Naples. His wife, Vickie, is alleged to have had a Jewish father.

Yes Turnbull, interesting how the subject changed.

Anyway, where is the best place to find out about family heritage and stuff like that? I know about ancestry.com, but is that really reliable? I thinking my library or something. I'm not really sure though.

Also, anyone ever heard of the Vetitoe's? (my family)

And for my original question:

Thanks


-Ethereal

Thanks Lisabella, those are very interesting, especially the one showing the difference between Italian and Sicilian.
The expressions sta te bon and sta te bene (sp?) mean the same thing. In GF 1 after the baby baptism, Mama Corleone says to Mike “state bene”. In GF2 Young Vito tells the fruit vendor “state bon.” One of those expressions is from Italy, the other I believe is from Sicily.
Can anyone tell me which is which?
If they do come from the different places and the Corleones are Sicilian, did Mama or Young Vito make a ‘mistake’ ?

My brain must be going soft, thanks for the correction Turnbull.

[/qb][/QUOTE]Thanks Lisabella, those are very interesting, especially the one showing the difference between Italian and Sicilian.
The expressions sta te bon and sta te bene (sp?) mean the same thing. In GF 1 after the baby baptism, Mama Corleone says to Mike “state bene”. In GF2 Young Vito tells the fruit vendor “state bon.” One of those expressions is from Italy, the other I believe is from Sicily.
Can anyone tell me which is which?
If they do come from the different places and the Corleones are Sicilian, did Mama or Young Vito make a "mistake' ? [/QB][/QUOTE]


I can tell you that "state bene" is Italian. I don't know enough about Sicilian to know if the other on is true Sicilian or not. But I would say that it most likely is Sicilian. Any one else know?

State bon would/could be a dialect-but I think it is NY dialect-and yes there is such a thing. State bon = State buono. It happened at the turn of the 20th century when you had a heavy influx of Napulitani and Siciliani, living side by side, their dialects merged together and you have what morphed into NY dialect. It's funny when my family/friends come to the city and they cannot understand the "dialect" that is spoken here. It's like the food, chicken parm,meatball heroes, or any type of heroes,veal parm,etc. simply do not exist in Sicily or Napuli. De Niro studied a dialect of sicilian for his film,"The gang that couldn't shoot straight" which was filmed close to GF2. Brando's italian was horrible, and throughout the films there are inconsistencies in dialect and pronunciation. How many different ways can you pronounce "Corleone"? Mary does it two different ways! So a word of advice, do not assume that what they are saying is actually correct!

Don Ethereal-
Run a Google surch using this line, "Sicilian surnames", there is a pretty comprehensive website out there that I cannot remember. Vetito (in many cases surnames go through spelling changes, I am not familiar with Vetitoe- double check the "E" on the end, It is rare that an e would follow an o in Sicily or Italy). I am not familiar with the surname though.I did some preliminary searching for you/ this surname exists in America, but I cannot find it anywhere else. According to the Italian/Sicilian phonebooks this surname does not exist, or its' variations . It sounds like your search may be difficult. Sometimes names appear out of nowhere and are just made up(Genealogy is a hobby of mine) for example, the surname Francisco appears to be Spanish, but there are many Dutch who took on the name in 18th century America,and no one knows why. Ancestry.com is a public space and you can learn much by sharing information with others. There are many genealogical websites out there so use them, it is the best way short of a trip to Sicily to get information. Also check EllisIsland.org it has all of the passenger lists for the immigrants entering through New York. Rootsweb is good as well. If you find anything beyond the US let me know! Most of all ask your elder family members- they are the best resource of them all, trace their vital records and follow that trail. It is very time consuming but it can be done.

---Don Etheral---

I no u said some of ur family is Sicilian

BUT, if u have any relatives in the (or came from the) Lettopalena / Abruzzo areas you can find genealogy information such as family trees, pedigrees,and descendencies at:

http://www.carfang.com/ - go to the genealogy database (this site is only a history of Lettopalena / Abruzzo surnames)

My family is in Abruzzo I found some good info in that site - if not try a search on ur family name if u haven;t already

That's facinating...thanks so much. I always remember in NY where I'm from originally, many "Italian people" (I'm not Italian) said state bon, and very few said state bene.

Lisabella- thanks for the websites

RosarioAlaia- thanks for doing the preliminary searching

Thanks to all for the info.

As for my heritage, I am only relaying what I have been told...my grandfather died 2 years ago , and he was the oldest person who knew anything about the Vetitoe's...with the spelling, that is the correct way. My one aunt always told me I was partial Italian...my grandfather told me about the Sicilian. I honestly only know that much...and that they all are over in Italy. Thanks to all, I will report on my findings.


Again, my love and thanks ...you all do not realize how much this really means to me.


-Ethereal

I'm an Italian but what the hell is a pezzonovante ?

I had grandfather in the Mafia. He shot six peeps in one gang fight and left without a fu**ing scratch! I'm full blood Sicilian so don't fu**ing mess with me!

Well, I'm sure you've got half this board running scared!!! :p Care to tell us what "family" your grandfather was associated with? Didn't know Ohio was "connected"!!

TIS

The term "pezzonovante" means big shot,literally "90 piece". But it is usually meant in a facetious manner, someone who thinks they are all that,but really is not.

Stallionette-

Ohio is VERY connected. Nuff said.


Stallion-

I have no idea how old you are(probably in your teens which is fine),but if anyone you knew or loved indeed had friends, you certainly wouldn't/shouldn't be discussing it anywhere. You are not 100% Sicilian,simply because you were born here,that makes you an American. I can surmise this because you did not know what a simple term like "pezzonovante" meant. However, I WAS born in Sicilia so it qualifies me to remark about your comment. Use your head wisely, and never let anyone outside the family know what you are thinking.

What do you do in Tunis Rosario?

Ciao!

My mother is from Tunis, so I only visit and drink tea. It is a beautiful country, vastly African,devoutedly Muslim,culturally french/arab,and the best baguettes on the planet!

Speaking of "pezzonovante", my grandmother, who spoke no English (but tried), tried to say big shot, referring to a couple relatives who acted like real pezzonovantes, and she would always call them, in a heavy Italian accent "Beeg-a-shot-tay" Would always crack us kids up!!


TIS