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Why was Capone Ostracized? #195829
11/08/02 02:25 AM
11/08/02 02:25 AM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,389
State Asylum
Snake Offline OP
Underboss
Snake  Offline OP
Underboss
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,389
State Asylum
I have only one semi-decent "Real-Life Mafia" book that chronicles the history, but I've seen at least a half a dozen documentaries, etc., on the Mafia and/or Al Capone. But none of those sources has ever satisfactorily explained why Capone was never welcomed with open arms by the "mainstream" Mafia families (esp. in NY). In fact, it seems they pretty much ignored him and even "dissed" him. Even Puzo illustrates it fictionally in The Godfather novel. Certainly Al had enough muscle to compel others to respect him, and he sure wasn't without some connections and power (or else he would've never been able to rule Chicago). What do you comrades believe is the reason?


"Vaya con Dios, Castle. Go with God."
"God's going to sit this one out." The Punisher (2004)
Re: Why was Capone Ostracized? #195830
11/08/02 10:12 AM
11/08/02 10:12 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 7,952
It's fun to stay in the YMCA
Turi Giuliano Offline
Turi Giuliano  Offline

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 7,952
It's fun to stay in the YMCA
Yes it's one of those things really and definately raises good discussion. I've only got opinion on it based on numerous facts and sources that i've read and heard. Beyond Chicago the view on the city was that of ruthless gangsters. Animals really. Capone was one of them and of Neopolitan descent and didn't run things in the way the Sicilians did. Although they liked to do business with him and stay on his right side. The whole episode with Bugs Moran the Irish gangster and the fueding within the city was looked down upon by the other familes around the country - mainly New York. No reasoning at all. That's my idea on the table anyway. There must be much mroe behind it though.


So die all who betray Giuliano
Re: Why was Capone Ostracized? #195831
11/08/02 10:21 AM
11/08/02 10:21 AM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,619
NJ
Don Marco Offline
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Don Marco  Offline
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Posts: 1,619
NJ
The Capones were considered to be short-sighted in their plans, and more interested in fighting for territory than the overall profitablity. In addition, Capone was a publicity seeker that enjoyed the attention and that is not the way the mafia does things.

He brought a lot of attention to himself with the level of violence in Chicago and that was eventually his downfall. In a way, Capone was similar to Sonny with his short temper, and ruthless pursuit of revenge at the expense of business. A great street fighter, but not a great leader.

After Capone, the Chicago mob became much more accepted. Giancana was at the Appalachin meeting in 1957, so they weren't excluded the way Vito excluded them from his meeting with the other leaders.


"After all, we are not communists"

Christopher Moltisanti: You ever think what a coincidence it is that Lou Gehrig died of Lou Gehrig's disease?

Tony Soprano: Yeah well, when you're married, you'll understand the importance of fresh produce.
Re: Why was Capone Ostracized? #195832
11/08/02 04:17 PM
11/08/02 04:17 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,518
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,518
AZ
Capone was dissed for two main reasons. First, he could not keep order in his empire. His outfit, although the biggest by far, was never able to stamp out the competition or even conclude a peace treaty that lasted. Chicago became the most violent city in the US for Prohibition-related crimes.
Second, Capone was a publicity hound whose antics aroused resentment among law enforcement and called attention to the fact that bootleggers and rum-runners (who were otherwise tolerated by the public because they supplied the public with booze) were really criminals after all. The famous 1929 gangster convention in Atlantic City was called by Longie Zwillman, Meyer Lansky and Charlie Luciano in part to push Capone out of the spotlight. Following the meeting, Capone arranged to be arrested in Philadelphia on a gun charge. He was given a one-year sentence in a PA prison, the better to let things cool off in Chicago and elsewhere.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Why was Capone Ostracized? #195833
11/08/02 06:30 PM
11/08/02 06:30 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,389
State Asylum
Snake Offline OP
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Snake  Offline OP
Underboss
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,389
State Asylum
Excellent points, gentlemen! I suppose the reasons are pretty obvious upon second glance. Maybe it's because they're so obvious that I felt there had to be more. Anyway, thanks, Turi, Don Marco, and Turnbull. All of it makes pefect sense.


"Vaya con Dios, Castle. Go with God."
"God's going to sit this one out." The Punisher (2004)
Re: Why was Capone Ostracized? #195834
11/14/02 02:16 AM
11/14/02 02:16 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 231
Pacific Northwest
CharlieLucifer Offline
Made Member
CharlieLucifer  Offline
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Posts: 231
Pacific Northwest
Another point that hasn't been mentioned:

Capone didn't really discriminate against race, he would do business with practically anybody supposedly...

New York frowned upon this heavily because they were like the strictly Sicilian/Italian secrect society... yet there were guys like Capone mixing with other races...

-Lucky


There's nothin' on the top but a bucket and a mop and an illustrated book about birds.
Re: Why was Capone Ostracized? #195835
11/14/02 06:56 PM
11/14/02 06:56 PM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,619
NJ
Don Marco Offline
Underboss
Don Marco  Offline
Underboss
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,619
NJ
Most of the people in business with him were Italian (except his business manager Jake Guzik). They weren't necessarily Sicilian, but Italian. The city of Chicago is, by nature, more diverse than New York was. Large sections of the city were controlled by non-Italians - especially the north side of the city where the Irish were in control. This is where the O'Bannion and later Moran gang were located. It is also the part of town that Hymie Weiss is from (real name Earl Wajciechowski).

A lot of the Chicago gangsters had different names. Machine Gun Jack McGurn, who worked for Capone, is really Vincert Gebardi.


"After all, we are not communists"

Christopher Moltisanti: You ever think what a coincidence it is that Lou Gehrig died of Lou Gehrig's disease?

Tony Soprano: Yeah well, when you're married, you'll understand the importance of fresh produce.
Re: Why was Capone Ostracized? #195836
12/09/02 08:56 PM
12/09/02 08:56 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 126
Vic-City, Canada
TwelveXprophet Offline
Made Member
TwelveXprophet  Offline
Made Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 126
Vic-City, Canada
I agree, Capone was too short-sighted and he hungered for the fame.


You better watch who you talkin bout; runnin your mouth, like you know me -----Nelly

Y'all just piss on me, shit on me, spit on my grave
Talk about me, laugh behind my back but in my face
Y'all some "well wishers," friendly actin, envy hidin snakes -----Nas
Re: Why was Capone Ostracized? #195837
12/17/02 01:27 PM
12/17/02 01:27 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 114
Kansas City
Black Gotti Offline
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Black Gotti  Offline
Made Member
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Posts: 114
Kansas City
Capone was an outlaw gangster. Though he ran his family in Chi-Town with an iron fist, he was looked down upon by the Mustache Petes. Too old fashioned in their ways. It forced Capone to brandish an 'I don't give a F*UCK' attitude. Oh yeah, Capone loved the spotlight too. A little like me.


16 Bars, Playas movin' dope in their cars/
Taped to the gas tank, Shawshank, smokin' cigars/
Took an oath son, spit on bums, I gotta succeed/
Murdered the child of the bast*ard, that tourtured my seed/
BLACK GOTTI

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