Sometimes when I watch mafia movies I see racism towards blacks and hispanics. Is the mafia really racist towards minorities? And were they back in the old days?

Yes....

Yes.....

I think the movies are fairly accurate.
Racism is a despicable thing and I hope it
is treated EVERYWHERE with the contempt it deserves.

It shows the danger of admiring old school mobsters as 'men of honour' when they hold such despicable and disgusting attitudes. Ironically, racism will have to decline if organised crime is to survive.

In the wider world of organised crime associates, (not made men obviously) there are many more ethnic groups doing a lot of the street level work. To get the best out of them attitudes will have to improve.

The movies are gentle about the attitudes of mobsters! At least the ones I knew! Quite apparently, some are more inclined to have racist attitudes than some, just like any other people (they are people as you and I). It is a thing that has been handed down for generation after generation in my family. Growing up, I remember Grandpapa would turn on the television and yell at the "spooks" and "******s", as he called them (please forgive my language). We were just always taught that they were lower than us in every way, and that is a hard thing to overcome when you were raised in that way.

Why would you want to overcome something that has been handed down to you? why waste your time? Wiseguy that is your opinion i'm glad you feel that way but why contempt another persons opinion?
Discussing, and analyzing racism is as easy as finding a cure for aids(at least i feel that way) To those who have it leave it good you don't have it, that way but since there is not cure take good care of them and don't treat them any worse then you, because if you discriminate a racist you too are racist which makes you no better then him i think that's what people need to realize. Is this not a free world?(the anology is no reflection on racism, or on the people who are racist) To me Personaly i make no bones about anything if you fuck with me i'll beat you i don't care what your color is and beat some more then others.

The mafia is a collection of murderers, leg breakers, extortionists, pimps, drug dealers, theives, racketeers, you name it. Does it really surprise you that they are also a traditionally racist group?
One of my favorite Pesci lines from Goodfellas: "can you imagine in this day and age, a Jew broad prejudiced against Italians?"

LOL why do you group racism with all of those things it's not as bad as taking someone's life away, Minorities are racist as well every group is.

Racism is the most human thing there is: hating and fearing what is different and what you don't understand. "Racist" people come from all walks of life and thrives in all kinds of people. To say it "doesn't really surprise you" that all those "types of people" tend to be racist just makes no sense. My father joined the U.S. Air Force to get his education (the money from my family's business ventures did not at all pay our way). Once he got his degree in radiology, he then helped put my mother through nursing school. We have no large fortune, but we are middle class citizens who have worked honorably for what we have, which is everything we really need. My father got us out of the Mafia. He is a good man. He is not a criminal. He is racist, though. He learned it from his parents, who learned it from their parents, and so on. Think on that, Fanucci. And by the way, Guineapig is right about minorities being just as racist. As whites in a well racially mixed area, my family and I are taunted by blacks all the time.

And are they called Racists Guinea?????? NO Right?

Well I must tell you that in certain neighborhoods about half a mile from where I live there are Black and Latino families who are racists against white people. Namely because of the Police bruatlity and many other things unknown to me.

But let me just say that As long as there are people of all different ethnics there will be racism. It will always exist and we can't do anything about it to change. It's just like Crime in the streets, Warring Countries, and battle on different regilgions.

yep... :p

Racism is very common in my country, and i have no problem with that.

Racism ain't a pure Mafia kind of thing, most of the Italians are racists.

You can say that again

I am member of a minority myself. We are all members of minorities to an extent. I've tried to stay out of this thread since making my earlier comments. But, I feel I should say something as my own comments may have helped knock this thread off course. A legitimate query about whether or not gangsters are racist has drifted into explaining away racism as something passed on from generation to generation.

I am uncomfortable with some of this. I oppose racism,no matter who is being racist against who. Saying that ethnic minorities are racist against whites or that whites are racist against minorities are unhelpful sweeping statements.

Quite apart from the fact that this thread sits uncomfortably in the Organised Crime section, I think it may be offputting for new members unfamiliar with the usual 'reasonable' ethos of the board. Perhaps, this thread should be closed.

Or Perhaps move it. But always avoiding the topic won't shed any light on people who cling to their opinions blindly.

To be truthful i myself don't consider myself a racist person but a person with strong oppinions on racial or ethnic flaws, not overlooking my own, i see myself in a world of mixing races, a dying culture, and hte dissolution of ethnicity in some twenty years at least in America anyways we'll all be mutts. I'm pround of my culture but powerless, so i refuse to budge in to the false public attitude that we're all not racist and that everyone is equal and should be treated equal because it's not true. So if you define that as racist then maybe i am.

But if i am i won't try to weed out my personality to accouter or accomadate or to as much as adapt myself to todays world, i'll try to hack each day in a way that is acceptable to me.

(this is not a post to explain or justify what you might judge in me to be racism)

So yeah if this thread causes discomfort maybe it should be moved or deleted.

Guineapig.

It is the evolution of a topic.

I was completely on-topic with mentioning the fact that it is rampant and inheirited in my family, coming from a mafia family myself; the racism of mobsters being what we were talking about.

With all due respect, Wiseguy_1872, the fact is that racism exists. A lot of people are racist. It isn't an evil thing, it is an aspect of someone's being, just as a quick temper is. It is a thing you can mask, deny, and even hate about yourself. You can try to change it, but few people will succeed. It was okay to bring up the topic of racism in mobsters, however not okay to begin a discussion of racism in the "average Joe." It is the same thing. I know that may be hard for you to grasp, having never known or loved an infamous criminal. You won't understand it, but I'll tell you anyway.

I would like to (if I may ) quote something goodfellaoggie said to me: "You can just ignore it if you don't like the topic."

Good stuff, Guinea Guarino!!!
I appreciate your honesty - today's society has made it so that many people get real touchy on the subject of racism; feeling so guilty at even discussing it that when someone dares to blurt out the simple facts (racism IS passed on from generation to generation), they are maligned. Others then feel obligated to then come out and state they oppose racism. It's the same pattern, it happense every time.

I don't think this thread is at all out of place in the Organized Crime forum. Italians, as well as Irish, Chinese, Jews and other nationalities have all been victims of racism in the past, and it IS human nature and accurate that the mafia is depicted as racist in movies, not just the old ones, either. Movies as recent as The Godfater.

Apple

Originally posted by Guinea Guarino
It is a thing you can mask, deny, and even hate about yourself. You can try to change it, but few people will succeed.

As someone who has never felt the need to be racist, I have never needed to 'succeed' as you put it. I have always been vehemently anti-racist. Many people feel the same. Anti-racism is something that has passed on from generation to generation of my family.

Originally posted by AppleonYa

today's society has made it so that many people get real touchy on the subject of racism; feeling so guilty at even discussing it that when someone dares to blurt out the simple facts (racism IS passed on from generation to generation), they are maligned. Others then feel obligated to then come out and state they oppose racism. It's the same pattern, it happense every time.

I don't feel guilty about discussing racism. But yes, as a progressive person I take pride in condeming racism. At no point have I denied that racism exists, nor that it is passed on from generation to generation. Does this mean that racism should be accepted as appropriate in the real world? Absolutely not! Progress is about liberating ourselves from bigoted attitudes. I feel that some contributers to this thread are accepting racism as not worth challenging.

Originally posted by Don Michel
Racism ain't a pure Mafia kind of thing, most of the Italians are racists.

The above comment that 'most of the Italians are racist' is the kind of sweeping statement that I take issue with.

Of course racism should feature in movies in portraying life accurately,be it in the context of gangsters,wars or whatever.

But in real life racism needs to be challenged. It may form part of a culture, but cultures have to evolve. Life changes.

Now THERE is a 'sweeping statement'. It's all part of the pattern. If you want to go out & challenge racism, by all means go ahead no one's stopping you. But try not to generalize those who are willing to discuss it it more realistically than others.

And yes, Wiseguy_1872, it WAS your comments that knocked this thread off course. But you're not the first to accomplish such a thing, and certainly won't be the last. If you're uncomfortable, it's because this is not a comfortable topic you've steered the board into.

Apple

"It is indeed difficult to define just who the `modern man' is, and what views he has to hold in order to be modern."
~ Josiah Royce 1855-1916

Sure the Italians were rascist towards Blacks and Hispanics.......but coming from Ireland I can say Im more ashamed of the predominantely Irish police force of that time who were extremely racist towards everybody else.

I'd also like to agree with someone who earlier made the point that even groups who are usually in the minority are rascist......for example when some members of my extended family went to visit my Nigerian relatives in an area mostly populated by Nigerians and other africans in London they were afraid to go outside because of constant verbal abuse.
A friend of mine lived in a part of Boston where people were mostly African-Americans and within a few months he had to move because he received rascist threatening letters as well as receiving threat in person.
I dont know about Americans but Irish people are incredibly rascist.
There are an unusually large number of Africans (unusually large for Ireland) in my area and I have become friends with many of them. 2 of them came to my house for dinner a few months ago and I walked them back to their apartment. On the way I passed many people -neighbours,friend- and not one of them said hi to me or waved.......they just stared for a while and then looked away quickly-pretending not to see us

The above comment that 'most of the Italians are racist' is the kind of sweeping statement that I take issue with.

Of course racism should feature in movies in portraying life accurately,be it in the context of gangsters,wars or whatever.

But in real life racism needs to be challenged. It may form part of a culture, but cultures have to evolve. Life changes.[/QB][/quote]Sorry, but i don't understand what you exactly mean.

I'm a kind of a racist as well but not like the KKK or so. Just don't like people who behave different, it doesn't mean that i hate them, just don't like them. The exeption are gays, i hate gays, but with a good reason. A couple of them raped my stepbrother in the Netherlands.

The Blacks in Boston are extremely racist(please if you're not from Mass don't speak). As i have stated many times minorities are racist and they get no heat or admonishing for acting so.. Whites do; in a way that is robbing freedom of speech.

Racism is a form of thinking if you're not racist you simply disagree with that form of thinking and that frame of thought(there is always two sides to every story), but if you're not racist doesn't mean that you're a "modern man" or that you are better then anyone because you feel the need to say that you're strongly against it. That is just the way that you think. That is all it is nothing more, your way of thinking is as worthy as my way of thinking can be worthy to you or maybe less.

Hate is the source of all love if it wasn't for hate people wouldn't have an accessable way of advancing love. Then why is it comdemned. If people think that being racist is being close minded fair enough, very well, that is your individual and particular opinion. I think that being close minded is blaming somebody who doesn't think as good as you. If you think that not having what you would think as valuable or acceptable reasons for being racist that is just YOU NOT EVERYBODY ELSE IF YOU ARE NOT RACIST THAT IS JUST YOU.

P.S i do apologize for being so long-winded. "if you don't like it ignore it"

Guineapig.

Well I agree with you GP, so I won't ignore it. Many things once thought to be progressive are now laughed at as foolish or condemned as wrong. So who knows what will be deemed progressive in the next age? What after all is the freedom that so many are so anxious to defend, if not the freedom to decide for one's self?

Communism was once thought by many to be progressive. And after all, we are not communists.

Hmmm, Racism and the Maffia. Some People believe that the Maffia were Racists, that they didnt give a Fuck about the Whites, the Blacks, the Hispanics and the other races. All they cared about were their own People. Back than, the time when they believed that the only way to let your Organization surivive in the World was to keep it in the Family. The bigger the Family, the more their enemies feared them. So they could not afford to have other races in their Organization. Thats why they felt that they were better than all the other races. I believe that the Maffia from that time were Stupid Fucks. They were scared of the enemie. They didnt want to expand their Organization because they Feard what the other Family's would say. Racism is not an attractive topic of discussion. It disgusts me to think that the Maffia were racists back than and it disgusts me that it still happens today in our neigborhoods and our citys and our countrys. Thinking that you are better than another color and thinking that you are superior to them is just a weak way of thinking. The people that think like this dont last long, and if your thinking like this when your in the Maffia it wont better your Organization.Color doesnt make the difference in the Maffia, the way you can use your mind to accomplish your goals does interst and does make the differnce in the Maffia. While on the other hand, some people believe that the Maffia worked with other races to try and expand their Reach in the Region that they were they located in. To work with other races, Is to Own the other races. I believe that when your in the Maffia, it doesnt matter what skin color a person is. The only thing that matters when your in the Maffia is the way you think. How you can contribute to the Organization.
If you can't do what you say, your worth nothing to them. The Maffia is about one thing and one thing only. To control your city and expand to eventually control everything. Like I said before: If you have different members of different races in your Organization than you stand a chance of controling a large area. To work with other races, is to control other races. This leads to a great deal of respect from your enemies and the community with in and it also leads to more Money and more Power. You have to use every single resource thats in the world to eventually Control the World. Sort of speak. The Power of putting Different minds together of Different races is the most Deadliest Power in the World. Because than you control different areas of your region. If you have this Power and put it to good use you will see what the outcome will be. Not Guns, Not Armies and not being Politicly Correct but the way you think and the way you plan to get all of the above and more is the Greatest Power that an Organization can have. If you get the Power and the Money from your Organization, than you have the Power of Manipulation. Manipulating the Politics and the Law, because you can decide what the outcome will be. And in the end it doesnt come down to the Color of Your Skin. To say this one more time: "To work with other races, Is to own the other races as well". To Quote the words of Tony Montana: "Take a good look at the Bad Guy 'cause this is the last time you gonna see a Bad Guy like me here again let me tell you that".

- "The World Is Yours".

I think you're absolutely right, Mr. Montana. Jeez, even their name, La Cosa Nostra, "this thing of ours," says it all. A very exclusive organization indeed...at least in concept. We all know there are exceptions, though. What's ironic is that the whole ball got started with multi-ethnic players (e.g., Lansky). Go figure!

It is my opinion that you may think whatever you want, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone. (You can "not like" blacks if you want as long as you don't tie them up and drag them behind your truck down a country road.) It's when the "thoughts of hatred" become "actions of hatred" that cause the problems.

I think that if a person treats me kindly, I'll treat them kindly back. No matter what color they are. Then again, if one treats me with disrespect, you can bet your ass I'll be a bitch about it.

At last the voice of reason, and from one so young too I agree completely with you here Pastapunk.
I recall the killing of the black guy they kidnapped and tied up behind the truck and dragged down the road. It was one of the most upsetting things I ever heard. It was quite big news here in Britain because of the absolute shock of it.
Theres people I dont get on with just as there are people I do get on with, people of all nationalities and I think if there ok with me I am ok with them. And for the most part everyone is fine (I'm talking 'real-life here not the BB') as you say, respect in everyday life for each other. Just wanted to add my agreement I'll shut up now cos I get long winded and carried away

Family Honour