Read this very interesting ARTICLE and discover Grand Master Guiseppi Mazzini 33°
Founder of Italian Freemasonry
Revolutionary Terrorist Leader
Sicilian Gangster
Mafia Founder

What does the acronym M.A.F.I.A. mean to them ?
Mazzini Authorizes Thefts, Arson, Poisoning.
Mazzini Autorizza Furti, Incendi, Avvelenamenti.

I alws thought it meant More Advantages For Italian Actors !

Interesting article, Almammater. There's an connection here in the US:
Many of America's Founding Fathers were Freemasons. They were, by and large, expansive thinkers, and not bound by rigid religious beliefs. Freedom of expression, including religious and intellectual expression, was high on their agenda when they created our Constitution. But bigotry was on the rise in the 19th Century among the "Know-Nothings," and "secret societies" like the Freemasons were at the top of their hate-list. In fact, Masonry in general was long suspect in America, until the Communist Party USA, and later the Kennedy assassination,replaced Masonry as the target of conspiracy theorists.
The Mafia is right up there, too. America is a nation that's at once fascinated and repelled by so-called "secret societies." The Mafia enjoys the dubious distinction of being a secret society that's not secret--it's as much a part of our popular culture as McDonald's, Disney, etc. If "Mafia" were a brand in America, it would enjoy more recognition than Coca Cola and AT&T. So, Mafiosi go through all kinds of secret rituals to join, and have to pledge to maintain omerta,, then find themselves the subject of the most intense popular and law-enforcement scrutiny. They can't win!
Incidentally, I like your avatar! The immortal Sofia?

Thank you for this article. I'm very interested in secret societies, such as skull and bones--to which George and George W. are members.There is very little written on the Illuminati that does't involve speculation.
I am not a "conspiracy nut", though after learning about events 20 years later how some events played out I am a bit cynical. My feeling is that more often than we think, national and international events are manipulated by a cross-section of people that are secretly connected by secret societies...Interesting fact: Robert Dole(conservative Republican) is a 32 degree mason. F.D.Roosevelt(liberal Democrat) was the President that added the pyramid and the eye over it to the dollar bill.
Thanks again for the great link.

I was searching & found this post. I just started reading it and was thinking about something that was on a movie named Rosewood. In the movie a man who is african american says he is a mason, and helps a caucasian man get away who is also a mason. I thought it was a movie blooper. Does anyone here know what I'm talking about?

Yeah plenty of 19th century men were Masons in Europe. In fact, all of the Champions of Liberty stamps issued by the US all have Masons on them.

The basic thing is Freemasonry is not some secret society. Skull and Bones and many others are knock-offs created by nut jobs that Freemasons didn't want.

Even LBJ was a Freemason. Bill Clinton was in DeMolay, a Masonic Youth group. Most of the presidents were Masons to some degree (pun intended).

The conspiracy crap comes from mis-informed people.

The most interesting Masonic Lodge in Italia, was an offspring of the Grande Oriente Lodge, the famous Propaganda Due, P2. Led by Gelli, it was finally labled as criminal organization, to overtake the italian state, by law enforcement. When they (police) rided Gellis House they found a list of members (which one can find in internet). On the list where the heads of army, carabinieri, polizia di stato, political parties, governments, busininess men, journalists etc.. Alltogehter much of Italias Elite. Under them the "cavaliere di lavaro" Berlusconi. This P2 had also close connections to the Sidona and Calvi scandals and the "Cosa Nostra". I think it was the most powerful masonic lodge that ever existed.

Both my grandfathers were masons. I am very interested and know masons currently. I think one day i shall look into joining a lodge local to me.

Another interesting fact...

Notable Masons: Churchill, Hitler, Da Vinci, Carlo Gambino, Tony Blair, GWB, ALL US presidents & UK PMs, most UK regional police chiefs and nearly ALL our House of Lords.

Masons...now thats the real secret society. Rules and regulation pre-dating christ. Shows the mafia for what they really are....just a bunch of thugs who have no honour and respect...despite lording it up about those two such things.

I'm pretty sure Adolf Hitler was NOT a Mason.

I know this will sound ignorant, but I know nothing about freemasonry so here goes. I always had this idea that freemasons were always caucasian people. I never knew there were other groups of masons that weren't caucasian, which was why I mentioned the movie Rosewood.

Yeah, well, for many years Freemasonry was an all white group in America. Its not that way today. However, a black version of Freemasonry, Prince Hall, still exists. It was created in response to all white lodges, kind of like black musician unions in response to white musician unions.

Bush too? Masonry is secular, and Bush is rather, how to put it, :rolleyes: very religious.

Yeah, when you say that Hitler and all US presidents are Masons, you lose credibility. Bush is not a Mason.

Hitler actually rounded up Masons in Germany and had them killed along with Jews. Some Masons made it through the war and instead of wearing square and compass lapel pins, they wore Forget-Me-Nots in their lapels to recognize each other.

I KNOW A LOT OF JACKASSES WHO CALL THEMSELVES MASONS, WHATEVER.....

YOU REALLY NEED TO RESEARCH BEYOND THE SURFACE A BIT ON THIS TOPIC REGARDING MASONS-ILLUMINATUS OR WHATEVER NAME YOU GIVE THEM.

Freemasons are have NOTHING to do with so called "illuminati" groups. Illuminati do NOT exist. This is the same crap people have been saying for centuries just because no one will show them the hand shake.

People who come up with this crap are the same ones who are into conspiracy. (For example, the shit that was posted about 9/11)

Please refrain from talking out your ass, Ice, about things you know nothing about.

OH, OH OK.


IM THE ONE TALKING OUT OF MY ASS. HANG ON.....LET ME ASK JEEVES WHAT HE THINKS ABOUT THE MASONS AND THEN ILL BE ABOUT AS EDUCATED AS U MY FRIEND.


GOODLUCK

I don't know where you're getting your info from, but I can assure you its very very wrong.

And on a side note, using all caps just makes you look silly. Instead of trying to have a civil discussion, you want to keep going on about how I'm wrong.

I'm not wrong. Freemasonry is not a cult. Stop reading everything you see and believing it.

Do you even know real Masons, or do you know people who claim to be Masons? Skull and Bones type stuff is nothing like Masonry.

Again, most of this ant-Masonic stuff was created by people who were too lame to join and were mad no one showed them the hand shake.

Mad Johnny, you are right that this mason=conspiracy is mostly a load of crap. But as with every secret societies there are some bad parts. In Europe especially the Grande Oriente lodges and their offsprings (mostly/all not recognized, by britains united grand lodge=hounorable masons) have been involved in all sorts of with collar crimes and conspiracies. Especially in Italia, Nederlands, Belgique/Belgium they have been connected to the NATO stay behind/Gladio structures and their shadowy influence in politics. I already wrote about P2, but there are/were many other small lodges involved with the mafias in Italia. f.e Stefano Bontate (the prince from villagrazia, killed by Riinas man Scarpuzzedda and his crew) was the local leader of a lodge. @Ice Illuminati existed only for a short time. It was a bunch of young enthusiasts, members were f.e Knigge, Goethe (on the order of his lord Carl August of Weimar as spy). Beiing "a bunch of enthusiasts and bad organized, the Illuminati broke up after they wer surpressed in catholic Bavaria. There is no secret around them, all their documents+ writings of their members still exist.
The book Illuminati, is a sci-fi book!!!!

U R SPECULATING AT BEST ON A TOPIC THAT IS VIRTUALLY BARREN WHEN IT COMES TO VERIFIABLE DATA.

Of course, but that´s because our whole world is based on that intellectual revolution around 1800 (in german we call it Aufklärung, i don´t know the english word), which the masons wanted to defend and spread. Because of that masonic symbols (f.e the eye rempresentig the reason/god of reason) got their place in western symbolism and in our daily life, just like christian, jewish, muslim socialist etc. symbols. When you think of masonic symbols as proof of a worldwide masonic conspiracy, i could prove a jewish ..etc. conspiracy. f.e some important numbers like 7 or 40, can be found behind nearly everything, not because of conspiracy, but because they found their way into human logic, human thinking.

The Enlightment, I think.

Post Scriptum: Everything i said in my previous post (the one you answered ice) are well known facts!!! The Illuminati thing one can find in hundrede of libraries, museums, archives.. The dark history of the grande oriente lodges and their offspring, can be found in material from judical, scientfic and parlamentarian investigations.

Ok, I wasn't around to reply for awhile...

Go away? Not likely...

Just because something is a lodge, that doesn't make it Masonic. Grand Lodges in America, UK and around the world do not recognize these groups as Masons. For example, if the Grand Lodge of New Jersey recognized one of these groups as Masonic, the other Grand Lodges around the world would automatically stop recognizing the NJ Grand Lodge as Masonic.

im just saying that neither of you are presenting anything that i cant find in an encyclopedia. yet you present the matter as if you might be some kind of innovator or something.....EVOLVE!!!!!!!!

Ever think that one set of books might not have all the answers?

That's why people specialize in certain areas, not in broad general terms

These gentlemen are stating facts, and debunking attempts to sensationalise freemasonry. Bravo.

First, you don´t have posted any facts!!!
Second encyclopedia????? Are you really getting all your knowledge from encyclopedia???? Encyclopedia are to find out some facts you don´t know at the moment, not to really, learn or get knowledge from, for this the information in encyclopedias are too short and too superficial(???spelling correct??). But that´s just how your knowledge is!! I wasn´t a innovator, everything i said is known by any interested, informed person or in parts (influence of any symbolism on culture and thinking)even by any reasonable person.