I'm sure this has probably been discussed before on this BB, so my apologies in advance. But I've wondered, what exactly is the ranking order in the Mafia? I've got a fairly good idea, but I'm not real sure. Does it go like this:

1. Godfather/Don
2. (?)Consiglieri
3. (?)Underboss
4. (?)Caporegime
5. (?)Button....?

And here I really get lost. Are some of the ranks and terms interchangeable? For instance, is a button the same as a wise guy? Are associates, enforcers, soldiers, and made men all the same thing? Can one of you experts --Colonel Turi, Fanucci, eddietheplumber, Rusty, Ricardo, J Geoff, SC, et. al. (forgive me if I didn't mention you. I know there are more of you out there!)--lay out the "pecking order"?

One more thing: Can anyone explain the "opening the books and getting made" rites and exactly what the significance of becoming a made man means? And what's with the rules...e.g., a made man can't take out another made guy, etc.??

I hope I didn't surprise too many of you with all my ignorance, but I'd really like to have all my gangster trivia together! Thanks in advance!

That's pretty much it. I've seen longer more detailed list, but that's all you have to know. A button man or soldier is the same thing, a made guy. An associate would be just a guy who's loosely involved with a crime family, but is not actually a member for whatever reason.

The short of being made is that you take an oath infront of the head of the family and several other important members to uphold Omerta, and the other rules that go along with it. Being made entitles no one to kill you or otherwise rip you off, without permission.

I hope that's mostly right, if not I'm sure someone who knows more then I will add to it.

The ranks go like this:
Boss
Underboss
Capo
Made Guy or wise guy
Associate or connected guy

The Consiglieri is up there with the underboss but technically is not in the chain of command but an advisor to the boss and settler of disputes among members. Associates, if they are good earners can have as much value to a family as a made member. When the books are open, the family is accepting new members. The rules are; you are in til you die, Omerta or silence (a joke nowadays), you cannot raise a hand to another member of any family, you cannot kill another member of any family without OK from the boss, you cannot fool around with another member's wife. The ritual we have all seen in movies is used by the NY families but some others eg. Chicago don't bother with it.

Yes, the consigliere usually is not an operating guy, like the underboss. Technically, the underboss outranks the consigliere, but the latter sometimes carries more weight in strategic discussions within the family. That pretty much describes Joe N. Gallo in the pre-Gotti Gambino family. However, Gotti scrambled everything around. In one of the tapes the government had, he says to Da Bull: "What would you rather be? Consigliere? Underboss? Whatever makes you feel da best..." (or something like that).

I agree with everything that has been said, but the definition of 'made' is hard to pin down.

1. A made man is someone who has killed. As in making your bones. "I made my bones when you were going out with cheerleaders!" - Moe Greene.

2. Being made. As in Goodfella's, Nicky is going to be made, whereas Henry and Jimmy can never be made, because they are Irish.

What I am saying is that in one instance, i see being made as simply having killed someone. Eg. Rocco made his bones by killing Paulie. On the other hand, Nicky was picked out to be made after much service (Even though it was a setup).

Which is the true definition?

"make your bones" does mean to commit your first murder in the interest of mob business but it does not make you a Made Member of the Italian La Cosa Nostra. You have to be sponsored by one or sometimes two made members and formally inducted by the high ranking members. Moe Green was never made because he was not Italian. Meyer Lansky and Bugsy Seigal, although very powerful and influential in the national comission were not made guys. I'm sure there were made members who never killed anyone but were highly connected or valuable to the family. Junior Gotti was made by his father but I'm not sure he ever whacked anyone.

You raise good points, Injektilo and Fanucci. I also think being "made" requires murder, as in "making your bones," but I'm not sure it's consistent. Junior Gotti and Bill Bonanno, were made, apparently without killing anyone, because they were sons of Dons. Nicky, in "Goodfellas," did kill someone--Morrie, with an icepick, in Frankie Carbone's Lincoln Connie, but it was at the behest of Jimmy Conway, not a made man himself. Then again, Jimmy was treated as if he were a capo or underboss--really lorded it over all the Italians in the film. Joe Valachie was a made man, but he never admitted to killing anyone except the guy in the Atlanta pen. I dunno--it's all over the place.

Back in the mid 80s the families lightened up on
"making your bones" if you did a robbery or
were a great earner they would consider opening
the books if someone vouched for you.
JIMMY had the run of the land because he was a
loyal freind and a great earner.

this made me thinkin... at the senate hearings in the Godfather Cicci says "at first like everybody else I was a soldier".

What did he become within the time? obviously he moved up within the ranks but did he control more men, a bodyguard for Clemenza/Pentangeli or what? from connected guy to wiseguy?

HE was a soldier or a button man,i imagine after
the hearings he was put into witness protection.

Grazie to all my Mafiaoso brothers for replying! I kinda' thought that was how it went. But when my ol' lady quizzed me about it (I've turned her into a genuine Sopranos fan!), I found myself uncertain. I knew I could count on you to clear it up! You're a bunch of good fellas...Hey! "Goodfellas"! Thanks again for the input!

I think Nicky would have killed a few people before Morrie. That guy was mean! Goodfellas seems to be the movie that makes the most statements about 'rank'. However as said before, it says that killing someone is not enough, you have to be recommended by a Don or other high ranking Mafia member.

I think everything has been pretty much covered here but another example of what could have got someone made is a good hi-jacking. Remember Chris from Sopranos series one when he hi-jacked the wrong load. I remember him saying he should have been made simply for that.

By Nicky I assume you mean the Pesci charicter Tommy. He also killed Stax Edwards in the film.

By Nicky I assume you mean the Pesci charicter Tommy. He also killed Stax Edwards in the film.[/b][/quote]Damn! Got to fix that reoccuring desire to mix Casino and Goodfellas!

SOPRANOS SEASON 1 SPOILER WARNING!

Actually, Turi, I think that Chris was saying that he should have been made after he killed that Czech guy named Emil while they were at the pork store in the pilot episode.

I don't think it was just the fact that he killed a man, but because it was a significant killing that helped the family. If you remember, this Emil guy had something to do with an opposing garbage company, which was one of the interests that the family (DeMeo family?) had as a moneymaker.

The best part was when they tried to throw him or should I say swing him up, into the dumpster...

Her's something I ran across by accident. As Henry Hill would say "it's real greaseball sh!t". Note the addition of "financial advisor".

Structure of a Mafia Crime Family
The “Honored Society” as the Mafia is commonly known among its members is structured much like a modern corporation in the sense that duties and responsibilities are disseminated downward through a “chain of command” that is organized in pyramid fashion. (Example follows)





1. Capo Crimini/Capo de tutti capi (super boss/boss of bosses)

2. Consigliere (trusted advisor or family counselor)

3. Capo Bastone (Underboss, second in command)

4. Contabile (financial advisor)

5. Caporegime or Capodecina (lieutenant, typically heads a faction of ten or more soldiers comprising a “crew.”)

6. Sgarrista (a foot soldier who carries out the day to day business of the family. A “made” member of the Mafia)

7. Piciotto (lower-ranking soldiers; enforcers. Also known in the streets as the “button man.”)

8. Giovane D'Honore (Mafia associate, typically a non-Sicilian or non-Italian member)

First of all, Tommy DeSimone killed Billy Batts, then Stax Edwards, then Maurie, and then either him or Jimmy set up the rest of the hits. (Carbone, Raostbeef, Buddha, Frenchy)

Underboss (Sonny) IS More important than Consigliere (Tom). It's Consigliere, E for ONE, I for more than one. eg. Piciotta, Piciotti

Paulie Cicero is TREATED like the Don, but in fact he is a Luchese Capo Regime. Under his Regime, I'd say Tutty was his Consigliere (He did the talking), Jimmy was his Underboss, Henry was a Capo, and Tommy was the Enforcer (Even though he was disliked by Paulie).

In actuality, Jimmy was Irish/Italian (or Jewish). Henry was Irish/Italian. Tommy was 100% Italian (Maybe Sicilian), he good be an official member of the Mob.

Willy Cicci would be Don Clemenza's Capo, and later Don Pentangelli's UnderBoss, and maybe later Don Cicci!

A Made Man is a man of 100% Italian heritage who has been inducted into a Mafia Family. Had Tommy been Made he couldn't hav ebeen whacked. Someone could have whacked Henry and Jimmy without starting aMob War, but if Tommy was killed then there would be Retaliation. Batts was Made so the Gotti crew whacked Tommy for killing Batts.

Don't ask me why DeVito went to the John Gotti crew of the Gambino Family to be Made into the Luchese Family.

Sony "made his bones" by committing armed robbery, and by forcing three repairmen to work at gunpoint. (Read the Novel, Apple )

Hmm, what else.....

In Casino, I'd assume that Nicky Santorro was a Capo, or a Bruglione, an out of state Capo (Cross in Vegas with the New York Clericuzio Family, Pentangelli in NY under Mike in Vegas).

Rothstein was the associate (The Jew), he couldn't be made he was always the numbers guy.

DeNiro's best two roles were as Mob Associates, excluding Raging Bull which isn't a Mob movie (But I guess he was an associate anyway), and Vito Corleone before DeNiro was so well-known.

Paul in Analyze This wasn't exactly classic DeNiro! Why is always the Jewish outcast? He looks Italian to me!

Until you're Made, you're a Civilian. Killing Jimmy Conway or Henry Hill may or may not have resulted in retaliation, it would've been up to Paulie to discuss with Tony Ducks Corallo.

RICARDO,if your gonna outline the crews and
their positions stick to the godfather series.
DID you read wise guy at all?
OR even watch the movie?Every story line you
told is wrong!DO YOU know these guys real names?
not one of varios crew was made or held any type
of street title except his brother.
burke and hill ran the street scams on varios
ground and jimmy made sure paul got his tribute.
BURKE WAS 100% IRISH,hill was 50/50 irish
italian.TOMMY did kill batts,then spider,finally
stax edwards,tommy was killed after that by
paul for pay back to the GAMBINOS,TOMMY killed a
made soldier w/out permission."CARBONE"real name
anthony stabile was killed by drug dealers.do not
even get into casino do you understand why tony
"the ant"was even there?read that book too!

Ricardo, hopefully we're all keeping in mind that you're only 16 (according to you) and will one day discover you're not such a bigshot and really don't know anything. I'll step aside & let eddiethep handle you, but for Christ Sake, just keep my name out of this topic!!

Sure, it's a fake name!
Nevertheless....

Apple

16? MORE LIKE 12 OR 13-STOLTO RAGAZZO-16-
SO WHAT DOES THAT MAKE CAMILLUS 18?
OH I FORGOT,HE WAS PUMPING GAS FOR DON
CARLO IN 1955 IN UP STATE NEW YORK,i think
he was working at john gottis gas station
BUGIA,MENZOGNA BOTH OF YOU.

good post rusty but it does not get read,these
guys end up writing their fiction and every
week it changes,i think they are drafting
GF-XVI FOR WHEN THEY GROW UP!

According to Joe Pistone (Donnie Brasco) after the FBI sting with him, things changed and they had to 'make there bones' IE kill someone) before the books would be opened for them because they knew an FBI guy wouldn't kill anyone so it was like a safety measure to protect themselves, Donnie Brasco came within a hairs breadth of being a made guy.

Learn to read!

I read Wiseguy AND watched Goodfellas! I aslo read the Lufthana Heist at http://www.crimelibrary.com I didn't SAY any of them were Made. I said Paulie was a Capo and had his own Regime. and IF we were foing to TREAT his Regime as a Family then Jimmy would be the Underboss, Tutty the Consigliere, Henry the Capo, and Tommy the Enforcer. OKAY, Burke was 100% Irish, ONE mistake. I SAID Hill was Irish/Italian. Tommy MAY have been killed on the orders of Paulie or MAY have been killed by Gambinos Gotti Crew; to this day it is still uncertain if DeSimone was murdered or went into hiding to escape trial. Batts was a Member of Gambino's Gotti crew. Anthony Stabile and Angelo Sepe were portayed as Frankie Carbone. One was found in a frozen meat truck, and in the movie it appears that Tommy or Jimmy had Carbone killed!

I've seen AND Read Casino: Love and Honor in Las Vegas!

Nicky Santorro/Anthony Spilotro was sent out by the Chicago Outfit to watch over Sam Rothstein/Frank Rosenthal. The fame went to Spilotro's head, and he disobeyed the Bosses back home, and in the early 80's he was killed, and buried alive with his brother in a cornfield!

Anything else?

No. Tommy did not order or set up any of the hits. Neither did Jimmy. It was Paul Vario, and to a small extent Jimmy - who was not even made, much less in a position to put out contracts on these scumbags.

Paulie was treated like the boss, because he was their boss. You don't ever hear of Tony Ducks or Tom Mix because those guys were at the top. These misfit motherfuckers all paid tribute to Paulie exclusively. Therefore, he was in a position to have them all whacked, which he nearly did.

He killed Foxy, and he killed Batts...which is why he was rubbed out. Jimmy was 100% Irish, while Henry was only half greaseball.

Wrong. A made man today only needs to be 50% Italian, on his father's side. The rules changed since thirty years ago, due to lack of personnel. Yes, Tommy could and would have been whacked as a made guy. If cigar Galante was the boss of the Bonnanos, and Ange Bruno the boss of Philly, both whacked with shotguns, then made guy Tommy would have had no chance of surviving into the 1980s. That is such a joke. For one, Paul Castellano would have marked a hot-head like Tommy for death, especially at a capo like John Gotti's behest, so forget a mob war. Paulie would happily have gone along with it, first because he hated that asshole DeSimone, and second because he would have loved to make Big Paul happy. Everyone did.


Actually that's not right. He did whack a guy for his button. In the middle of the book, it clearly says he was the most feared warrior of the mid-1930s war in NYC. He was a stone killer who earnt it the hard way. The stickup of the repairmen who took apart the components in his house was just a lack of judgement, which his dad admonished him for later.

Anthony (The Ant) Spilotro was a made guy, later a capo, in the Outfit. He went against Jackie Cerone and Joey Aiuppa's orders with his gang, but they allowed him to live while he raked in the nearly $1 million per-month revenue he was doing with his crew at the diner. They were a bit like Gaspipe Casso's "Bypass Gang" from '81 until the early '90s in Brooklyn. When The Ant's crew started becoming rats, he was whacked with his brother in the Indiana cornfield, with only his underwear left on his broken body.

Paulie never discussed it with Tony Ducks. They were half-assed associates as far as rank went. Even as earners, they were bringing too much heat with their drug deals, because they were the bottom guys who sold it. Paulie invested in drug shipments, but the insulation between himself and the sellers meant he wouldn't get his balls busted by the DEA or the Feds for it. This is why Jimmy and Henry were marked if they got caught. Tony Ducks might have sat down for something like Tommy's murder, if he was made, but I doubt it. He was busy in his Jag making concrete deals and getting photographed at Commission meetings in Staten Island suburbs.[/b][/quote]In Goodfellas we're led to believe that either Tonny/Paulie/ or Jimmy set up these hits. In Wiseguys, it may say differently, sorry.

Tony Ducks Corallo was the Boss of the Lucchese Family and is mentioned in Wiseguys. Paulie Vario was a Luchese Capo who assocaited with the key characters in Goodfellas.

My definition of Made Men was the one given by Henry Hill in Goodfellas.

In real life, I KNOW you can be Jewish, Italian, Chinese, Irish, Spanish, Russian, whatever and be Made.

Pope Castellano probably WOULD have had DeSimone murdered. Remember Gotti and Castellano were NOT the best of friends. You did know, Gotti was respnosible fo rmurdering Castellano in 1985, after Aniello Dellacroce died? Of course you did.

It says towards the end of Book 3, that Vito sent Sonny downstairs with the repairman as a chance to make his bones.

Someone said Sonny killed the Irishmen that shot Vito. Actually, Luca dethroned the Irish Mob single-handedly. (I doubt it, but that's what Puzo said :rolleyes: ) I think Puzo mentioned Sonny being feared, but i don't remember reference to him actually killing anyone. I'll read Book 3 again and get back to you!

I agree if Henry Hill hadn't testified and landed Vario and Burke in jail, they would've went down with Corallo, Gotti, Persico, Salerno and everybody else in the Famous Commision Trial!

Sal Romano ratted on the Hole in the Wall Gang and landed Cullotta and Spilotro in jail. You stated the rest, the Spilotros were murdered in Indiana.

Sorry, if my points weren't 100% clear.

But It seems to me the only thing i got incorect was that Jimmy Burke was 100% Irish not 50/50!

Ricardo, hopefully we're all keeping in mind that you're only 16 (according to you) and will one day discover you're not such a bigshot and really don't know anything. I'll step aside & let eddiethep handle you, but for Christ Sake, just keep my name out of this topic!!

Sure, it's a fake name!
Nevertheless....

Apple[/b][/quote]What about my post makes me a 16-year old know it all?

Someone asked how Ranks were divided, and how bones were made.

I explained how ranks were in Casino and Goodfellas and how in Sonny's case he didn't need to kill anyone because he was the Don's son.

APPLE
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NOW i'm an annoying 16 year old!

Valachi has also admitted involvement in or knowledge of Several Castellammrese War murders including Peter Clutching Hand Morello, and "Buster from Chicago".

that is about right.