Till the 2000s I guess there was no better position than a Made men in the canadian criminal world. The Rizzuto’s for example were the most powerful criminal group in all of Canada. But since the mafia war in Quebec and Ontario, the mafia of Montreal, Hamilton and Toronto has lost alot of power.

Now, the Hells Angels are stromger than ever. A force
That can rival the mafia in Canada.

In the canadian criminal world of today, which title got more weight now? A made men or a Full patch (hells) ???

Who got more weight on the streets in Quebec these days? HA. If we're just talking sheer manpower and especially the capability and the "military smarts" to put the manpower to good use, the mafia would get butchered by the bikers in Quebec.
When it comes to infiltrating 'legitimate' instances on the other hand, it's still hard to tell... I don't think the mafia lost a lot of power there.

When we're talking Ontario on the other hand, I'd give the edge to the Calabrian clans. They got both the infiltrative connections as well as the muscle.
The Ontario bikers got muscle, but on an organizational level they're not up to par with their brethren in Quebec and BC.

Canada is interesting, in the sense that it’s such a big country, with the HA a one time nearly covering the whole country from coast to coast. Under Stadnik they basically had cornered the 1% market.

BC was already HA prior to Stadnik, I think?? The expansion and fearful reputation of HA in Canada, can/comes from the war in Quebec. When HA patches Ontario, they basically eliminated any enemy club in the process, with a retire, join or die offer.

Since then, the Bacchus now control the East Coast of Canada, which was at one point HA dominate via Wolf Carrol. Ontario was free of enemy clubs, and only consisted of HA and puppets (Red Devils in Hamilton, etc), since then swore enemy the OLMC is sharing Ontario. I’m sure it’s similar all across Canada.

BC seems forever the Patch is more valued than a button, Quebec appears that way as well, currently. Toronto, maybe not so much. The HA in Ontario never really earned their Patch like Quebec, everyone knows this so they aren’t valued the same. It’s like wearing the Special Forces uniform, went your only a basic soldier.

Hamilton it’s similar, for a bunch of OLMC to become HA, it’s laughable, and nearly impossible to forgive, as well as the Red Devils becoming Bacchus.

I think the Patch is more valued in certain parts of the country. If anything the HA should learn from Rizzuto, the saying ‘perception is reality’ never fully applies to OC.

at least for now the HA seem smart enough to forge and keep alliances especially in MTL but also w/ 'ndrangheta in Ont.
the london HA and figliomeni 'ndrine being a good current example.

and the amount of people a full path HA has working for him varies,but some of the most current drug investigations show large networks operating under the direction of 1-4 full patch members.
none of the current mafia busts show anywhere near that kind of influence.

Good points

I think it really depends on the province.
In Quebec, I think the weights of the made men in the street as really slowed down. People in Montreal fear more the bikers than the Mafia. Espacially now, since many old timers are dead. But, people fear more the hells now.

In Ontario, it look lile the hells angels don’t hold weight like the chapters in Quebec. Many gangs in Toronto are supplied by other organizations, like the ndrangheta, jamaican posses (like the shower posses), asian crime groups, russians or others. So the weight of a full patch is less important in Ontario.
In Hamilton, I guess the weight of a made men is bigger than a full patch.

Even in a province like Ontario it seems to differ from area to area. The London chapter for instance is very much influenced by Quebec and therefore reasonably organized.

Hamilton on the other hand seems to be a bit of a mess when it comes to the bikers. They don't hold a candle to the Ndrangheta cells in terms of sophistication.

Toronto is also a bit more all over the place. The main bread and butter of the bikers are still narcotics. Toronto on the other hand has about three main suppliers of narcotics: Calabrians, Jamaicans and Chinese (not Triads as many may think, but rather mainland Chinese gangs from Guangdong). The market is stacked and the local bikers only play a very secondary role. I even read somewhere that there are Quebec-based bikers pushing in on the Ontario market...which is very telling about the state the local bikers are in.

The thing is that there are also plenty of gangs active in BC. Chinese gangs operate there as well as Indian gangs.
And make no mistake about it; the Indians have definitely moved up. They have set up direct drug pipelines from Latin America; Indian gangs conducting criminal operations with this kind of sophistication is something that was unthinkable 20 years ago. The fact that they have worked their way deep into the trucking industry, definitely helps in this.
Yet despite the "competition" the HA are still the major OC force in BC and they still have a stranglehold over the docks.

I think that yes the bikers control the streets but the mafia and the ndrangheta control the politicians and in some ways the police,the HA grown because the Rizzuto decline but and its need to remember that the Canada its not the USA and the Italian OC can easly call for reinforcements from the motherland and that the ndrangheta has proven to be particularly ferocious when attacked.

I think you're comparing a major league ball club with Triple "A" - if that.

The Mafia is always head and shoulders way above the bikers, and even the bikers know it. When Nicolo Rizzuto was in prison, incarcerated HA's were fighting over who got to press his clothes and lay them out on his cell cot in time for him coming back from the breakfast - where other HA's served his food tray to him and followed him around, hanging on his every word and gesture to the point he complained to prison officials that they were a nuisance.

HA's live in awe of mob guys. In the early 2000's in BC the police did a major bust of the Hells Angels, mostly by using a "Mr Big" undercover sting with cops posing as members of the mafia. The HA's got themselves into trouble by tripping over themselves trying to impress the fake Mafiosi.

Even in BC where the HA are the public face of organized crime, you had over the years guys like Joe Romano and Joe Gentile (christian godfather to Paolo Violi's kids) who operated at the very top of the OC pyramid in BC. Rizzutos have always had a Vancouver presence too with Robert and Anthony Papalia.

----
East Side, I tend to wholeheartedly agree with you. At the end of the day, pound for pound, its not even a competition.....on any level.

Sheer violence? Yes. Anybody can pick up a gun and shoot or act nutty. And these MC clubs potentially have that going for them.

But in EVERY other category, they run a distant second IMO (at best)

I only follow the US bike scene. Every time I read about what goes on in Canada it blows my mind.

Are the laws that weak? Are they applied different? Do people get shorter sentences so they just don't care? Never ending supply of hungry young men with no better options in life?

Mr Rizzuto was on a level the modern families from NYC from the 90's couldn't compete with unless it was the the big 1 and 2.....gen and gam.....had whole armies and you have 1 don up north who set everything straight.

Canada seems to be the only place where this is actually debated. Specifically, in Montreal, Toronto and Hamilton from my observations. It can be traced to Montreal, and the bikers association to the Rizzutos via guys like Norman Robitaille and his friendship with Nick Jr and Mom with Vito. The bikers treated it as ‘Monkeys see Monkeys think they can do’, they act like mobster or the Nomads like Mom and Norman now, and in the end they are neither. Yes, they are Hells in the sense that they wear the same uniform, but in no way, are they the same as those guys, they just get the benefit of the damage and money those guys created.

Toronto, has the highest per capita of Hells Angels members anywhere in the world, origins is that they were just given their cuts, never earned them. That’s the tradition of HA in Ontario, now compare that to mobsters, you gotta earn your rank in that world.

Hamilton is the city of Outlaws that became their blood enemies the HAs and the oldest MC in Canada, the Red Devils, became a club with a homosexual Patch, the Bacchus. Now the ex-puppets the Red Devils are serious 1%, the Bacchus lol.

If these guys were like the HA of which built the reputation for them, their puppets now would be not standing tall in Hamilton, and they wouldn’t be sharing territory with their sworn blood enemies (Outlaws have returned). Same for the OLMC, if they were serious, they could not exist with HAs in the same territory either.

You got brothers in Hamilton where one is an HA and the other a OPP cop, these are the type of relationships used to White Shotgun Paolo Renda, etc. As well, as pimping women and kids, the online porn or prostitution is very lucrative, it’s disturbing the shit you can trace to guys like David Lefebvre, Martin Robert, etc. via the web (both normal and dark). That stuff came to Quebec in the the late 90’s, early 2000’s via the now dead HA Scott Steinart.

If you know about Danny Kane, Amie Simard, you would know that that type of ‘brother, lover and BFF’ broke back mountain shit, was/is still alive in Quebec. Yves ‘Apache’ Trudeau took that to young boys with the help of the RCMP, these guys are the same. If they don’t physically participate, they are making money on the web with it now. It was another reason, for the Lennoxville Massacre, that type of shit, is the California poptart, NAMBLA boy love or California, which has massive headquarters in Toronto and Quebec.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...ed-bust-the-hells-angels/article1031714/

The cops are some of the biggest fans, and participants in that shit with their biker BFF, specifically in Canada. If you can get any of the major players in the Rock Machine vs Hells Angels war to explain the whole thing this would be part of it, you can also ask them if it ever really ended, as well as how much of the attack on the Rizzutos and the current mob war in Hamilton had anything to do with this, as well as everything else.

It’s business, but it’s also a war!

Rene Charlebois was a Nomad with Mom Boucher, he left 10 tapes of evidence on corruption within the cops. He escaped prison and committed suicide before being rearrested.

Some of this, is what they used to extort the cops, crooks, politicians, etc. that are into bi, gay, pedo or worst.


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/hells-angel-rené-charlebois-left-tapes-before-committing-suicide-1.2457461

This is their history, not even a movie script lol

Canadian organized crime is more similar to Europe (UK, Spain, Holland). Although the Italian Mafia is the best known and most documented group. Every segment of society has been involved in organized crime.

The story of an alleged clash in Toronto between a Siderno Locale of 'Ndrangheta and the Wolfpack Alliance.

https://www.cosanostranews.com/2020/09/ndrangheta-clash-in-toronto-when.html?m=1

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/lfpress...82a6af1-681d-4d55-918c-4eee090b075e/amp/

“I see them (outlaw motorcycle clubs) as almost equal to the mob. They are close in status and stature to the mob,” Det. Staff Sgt Scott Wade, operations manager of the OPP biker enforcement unit, said Friday. “This is high-level organized crime.”

In Ontario.

Now THAT was a great article. And I retract what I said ealirer about these biker gangs not being sophisticated. Most are not. They are beer swilling, dirty bikers with scatter brains.

But just as in this article, there are some that have elevated themselves tremendously. When you can swing numbers of millions per year. You are doing something right.

Bookmaking, and related gambling activities was NOT something that they ever dealt in. But in Canada and certain European countries they seem to have gone to the next level.

I just wanted to give credit where credit is do my man. Ok? lol

Yeah, I think the biker scene in Canada, well mostly the Hells Angels, are another kind of breed. Espacialy in Quebec and British Columbia. Sure, they are bikers, but they are bikers that now are walking with hand made suits.

But since the crackdown of the rizzuto’s, the hells angels are taking advantage of the situation.

Looks like they're doing one hell of a good job of it! Lol

What’s things been like since the Scoppas have been removed? From reports, it’s as if the mob in Montreal, is now following a clan style system, which is interesting?

Also, Andrea Scoppa has a tell all book, that got released after he was whacked, which is kinda crazy, since it is part of the war in Montreal! Just another crazy twist lol Scoppa specifically mentions the Nomads of the Biker War as still being very influential?

Mostly quiet since 2019 murder of a.scoppa not many of his associates appear very active and since it appears scoopa was a rat to the police and media I doubt his former crew is in demand by anyone.
Hoping that the book by Felix Seguin the source is released in English edition soon.

Right on, thanks!

Considering these gang land killings involved two separate instances where OC murders were solved, at least to the point of arrest, trial is another story lol, being Musitano and Sollecito/etc.

Is bizarre in its own right, add in one of the guys (Andrea Scoppa) involved being an informer and a tell all book, is hard to grasp.