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Re: Most Powerful CO in the world
[Re: TheKillingJoke]
#989411
04/13/20 05:06 AM
04/13/20 05:06 AM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,592
m2w
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,592
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Is the Trapani faction still the most powerful faction within the Sicilian mafia? I kinda get the idea that several Palermo clans are still plenty strong due to their American operations. Also some of the Agrigento clans are quite international in scope with links in North as well as South America.
Ndrangheta got tons of clans that are widespread. There's a well known clan that allegedly operates in my area. They're basically ghosts though, extremely low-key. if we talk of factions, the families of the sicilian mafia are not all made up of relatives as in the ndrangheta, a better comparison would be between a single locale (de stefano for example) and a mafia mandamento (brancaccio for example) be widespread is just an indicator and not even the most important, the best indicators of power are politics connections, infiltration of economy and rooted in the territory... their main strength comes from being extremely rooted in the territory from which to operate i think the most powerful factions of the sicilian mafia are san lorenzo, misilmeri, san giuseppe jato, porta nuova and brancaccio mandamenti (palermo), the whole province of trapani, the rinzivillo family from gela, the santapaola family from catania and some agrigento mandamenti
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Re: Most Powerful CO in the world
[Re: m2w]
#989413
04/13/20 07:10 AM
04/13/20 07:10 AM
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,186
TheKillingJoke
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,186
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Is the Trapani faction still the most powerful faction within the Sicilian mafia? I kinda get the idea that several Palermo clans are still plenty strong due to their American operations. Also some of the Agrigento clans are quite international in scope with links in North as well as South America.
Ndrangheta got tons of clans that are widespread. There's a well known clan that allegedly operates in my area. They're basically ghosts though, extremely low-key. if we talk of factions, the families of the sicilian mafia are not all made up of relatives as in the ndrangheta, a better comparison would be between a single locale (de stefano for example) and a mafia mandamento (brancaccio for example) be widespread is just an indicator and not even the most important, the best indicators of power are politics connections, infiltration of economy and rooted in the territory... their main strength comes from being extremely rooted in the territory from which to operate i think the most powerful factions of the sicilian mafia are san lorenzo, misilmeri, san giuseppe jato, porta nuova and brancaccio mandamenti (palermo), the whole province of trapani, the rinzivillo family from gela, the santapaola family from catania and some agrigento mandamenti Cheers. From what I read I always got the impression that Catania is a bit of "the runt of the litter" in the Sicilian mafia in that the mafia doesn't seem to have an iron grip over the territory over there - but I could be wrong of course. What state are the Stidda in these days? In the 90's there was a Stidda clan active in the French-speaking region of my country. They infiltrated the local economy quite well and were allegedly involved in a few disappearances.
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Re: Most Powerful CO in the world
[Re: TheKillingJoke]
#989417
04/13/20 08:27 AM
04/13/20 08:27 AM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,258 Balkans
Strax
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,258
Balkans
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Cheers. From what I read I always got the impression that Catania is a bit of "the runt of the litter" in the Sicilian mafia in that the mafia doesn't seem to have an iron grip over the territory over there - but I could be wrong of course. What state are the Stidda in these days? In the 90's there was a Stidda clan active in the French-speaking region of my country. They infiltrated the local economy quite well and were allegedly involved in a few disappearances.
Santapaola family is very powerful in the east, probably most powerful in the eastern Sicily, they have a strong grip over their territory. Stidda is still present, but nowadays they are working closely with Sicilian Mafia. @m2w: Is Giuseppe 'The Doctor' Guttadauro still boss of Roccella family(Brancaccio mandamento) ? Guttadauros for example are very poweful family.Carlo Guttadauro a capodecina of Bagheria family and Filippo Guttadauro member of castelvetrano family.Giuseppe was primary of Palermo hospital , i know he is surgeon.
"A fish with his mouth closed never get's caught"
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Re: Most Powerful CO in the world
[Re: m2w]
#989479
04/14/20 09:29 AM
04/14/20 09:29 AM
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Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 27,083
Hollander
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Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 27,083
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The 'Ndrangheta also operates like a drug cartel, the cocaine operations in Italy, but also the entire value chain from the buying of drugs in South America to their distribution in Europe and to the laundering of the illicit revenues. it's doing what sicilian mafia did in the 1970s and 1980s at the time of pizza connection etc. it became both power and enterprise syndicate Yes another difference is the Sicilians mainly focused on the USA the Calabrians on Europe with some outposts in Canada and Australia.
"The king is dead, long live the king!"
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Re: Most Powerful CO in the world
[Re: m2w]
#989543
04/16/20 06:31 AM
04/16/20 06:31 AM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,258 Balkans
Strax
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,258
Balkans
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@m2w: Is Giuseppe 'The Doctor' Guttadauro still boss of Roccella family(Brancaccio mandamento) ? Guttadauros for example are very poweful family.Carlo Guttadauro a capodecina of Bagheria family and Filippo Guttadauro member of castelvetrano family.Giuseppe was primary of Palermo hospital , i know he is surgeon. he was the boss of brancaccio mandamento in the early 2000 i don't know nowadays... a difference between cosa nostra and ndrangheta is that in the sicilian mafia members of a blood family can be made in multiple criminal families instead it's nearly impossibile a de stefano would be made by another locale (morabito for example) He is still the boss of Roccella family ,currently he is living in Rome.
"A fish with his mouth closed never get's caught"
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Re: Most Powerful CO in the world
[Re: FireHawk]
#989556
04/16/20 05:09 PM
04/16/20 05:09 PM
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,304
Revis_Knicks
Was: Revis_Island
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Was: Revis_Island
Underboss
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,304
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Re: Most Powerful CO in the world
[Re: Strax]
#989574
04/16/20 08:37 PM
04/16/20 08:37 PM
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Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 27,083
Hollander
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Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 27,083
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@m2w: Is Giuseppe 'The Doctor' Guttadauro still boss of Roccella family(Brancaccio mandamento) ? Guttadauros for example are very poweful family.Carlo Guttadauro a capodecina of Bagheria family and Filippo Guttadauro member of castelvetrano family.Giuseppe was primary of Palermo hospital , i know he is surgeon. he was the boss of brancaccio mandamento in the early 2000 i don't know nowadays... a difference between cosa nostra and ndrangheta is that in the sicilian mafia members of a blood family can be made in multiple criminal families instead it's nearly impossibile a de stefano would be made by another locale (morabito for example) He is still the boss of Roccella family ,currently he is living in Rome. Giuseppe is a high-profile surgeon, there have been several doctors who are initiated in cosa nostra. Like Michele Navarra boss of Corleone family. In 1946, after the murder of the director of the local hospital Carmelo Nicolosi, Navarra also occupied that position, first as regent and then, from 1948, as owner.
"The king is dead, long live the king!"
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Re: Most Powerful CO in the world
[Re: m2w]
#989664
04/18/20 07:37 PM
04/18/20 07:37 PM
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,186
TheKillingJoke
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,186
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The Chechen mafia is also very powerful. I’m not sure if anybody mentioned them yet. most of thieves in law are georgians, it seems the strongest faction of ex soviet oc Definitely. Most "Russian" OC busts in Western Europe these days involve Georgians, Armenians and Kurds/Yezidis. Azeris (and Talysh) and Chechens largely seem to stick to Russia, except for a few extortion rings here and there. Chechen organized crime had its time in the limelight in the 90s. They're still around of course, but not as endemic as before. Every few years a small group of Chechen criminals are busted in Antwerp; last time it was for a scheme where someone bought diamonds from a guy connected to the Chechens after which the Chechens robbed them back. Blue collar rackets for the most part. The "Russian mafia" in Antwerp in the 90's and early 2000's were mostly Jewish criminals from Georgia and Ukraine; the Ukrainians left and the notorious Georgian-Jewish families have gone legit (for the most part). Dunno what the state is on the bratvas in Russia. You hear nothing about the 'almighty' Solntsevo. I suppose most of them went largely legit.
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Re: Most Powerful CO in the world
[Re: FireHawk]
#989666
04/18/20 07:50 PM
04/18/20 07:50 PM
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Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 1,014 Woodlawn
VitoCahill
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 1,014
Woodlawn
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would also like to know those on here what there thoughts r on an organization in asia known as SAM GOR. looks to be an alliance/syndicate of the 14k triad,wo shing wo,sun yee on,big circle gang and the bamboo union the Boss is tse chi lop a canadian/chinese citizen. he has been described as the "el chapo" of asia,whatever that meens. the main m.o. of this alliance is meth/heroin trafficking across asia. with a large asian population in both toronto and vancouver and consistent large meth,heroin,fentanyl,precursor chems and other drug busts in these cities i wonder if this organization has began penetrating said markets?
since project o phoenix in toronto there has not been a large scale 'ndrangheta drug bust. project sindicato involved some drugs but was mostly focused on on-line gambling and money laundering.
there has also not been any high level mexican cartel drug busts in last few years. 2014 project roadmaster(sinaloa cartel) 2017 project hope(unsure of cartel connection)
i guess what i am putting down is that both above mentioned groups r accused of being high level drug trafficking organizations and in the last 5 yrs they have not been busted. so that would show they r being more insular and not as involved in the direct importation of drugs(possible w/ 'ndrangheta and some mexican cartels)...OR some other group has decided to take over that position of direct supplier to an area like toronto.
in most recent large scale drug busts in GTA the majority of arrested have asian/southeast asian names,not italian or latin american.
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Re: Most Powerful CO in the world
[Re: VitoCahill]
#989668
04/18/20 08:50 PM
04/18/20 08:50 PM
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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,242
Blackmobs
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,242
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would also like to know those on here what there thoughts r on an organization in asia known as SAM GOR. looks to be an alliance/syndicate of the 14k triad,wo shing wo,sun yee on,big circle gang and the bamboo union the Boss is tse chi lop a canadian/chinese citizen. he has been described as the "el chapo" of asia,whatever that meens. the main m.o. of this alliance is meth/heroin trafficking across asia. with a large asian population in both toronto and vancouver and consistent large meth,heroin,fentanyl,precursor chems and other drug busts in these cities i wonder if this organization has began penetrating said markets?
since project o phoenix in toronto there has not been a large scale 'ndrangheta drug bust. project sindicato involved some drugs but was mostly focused on on-line gambling and money laundering.
there has also not been any high level mexican cartel drug busts in last few years. 2014 project roadmaster(sinaloa cartel) 2017 project hope(unsure of cartel connection)
i guess what i am putting down is that both above mentioned groups r accused of being high level drug trafficking organizations and in the last 5 yrs they have not been busted. so that would show they r being more insular and not as involved in the direct importation of drugs(possible w/ 'ndrangheta and some mexican cartels)...OR some other group has decided to take over that position of direct supplier to an area like toronto.
in most recent large scale drug busts in GTA the majority of arrested have asian/southeast asian names,not italian or latin american. I just read about SAM GOR, that is heavy. They old as much weight than the mexican cartels and italian groups.
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Re: Most Powerful CO in the world
[Re: Blackmobs]
#989671
04/19/20 12:36 AM
04/19/20 12:36 AM
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,304
Revis_Knicks
Was: Revis_Island
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Was: Revis_Island
Underboss
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,304
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would also like to know those on here what there thoughts r on an organization in asia known as SAM GOR. looks to be an alliance/syndicate of the 14k triad,wo shing wo,sun yee on,big circle gang and the bamboo union the Boss is tse chi lop a canadian/chinese citizen. he has been described as the "el chapo" of asia,whatever that meens. the main m.o. of this alliance is meth/heroin trafficking across asia. with a large asian population in both toronto and vancouver and consistent large meth,heroin,fentanyl,precursor chems and other drug busts in these cities i wonder if this organization has began penetrating said markets?
since project o phoenix in toronto there has not been a large scale 'ndrangheta drug bust. project sindicato involved some drugs but was mostly focused on on-line gambling and money laundering.
there has also not been any high level mexican cartel drug busts in last few years. 2014 project roadmaster(sinaloa cartel) 2017 project hope(unsure of cartel connection)
i guess what i am putting down is that both above mentioned groups r accused of being high level drug trafficking organizations and in the last 5 yrs they have not been busted. so that would show they r being more insular and not as involved in the direct importation of drugs(possible w/ 'ndrangheta and some mexican cartels)...OR some other group has decided to take over that position of direct supplier to an area like toronto.
in most recent large scale drug busts in GTA the majority of arrested have asian/southeast asian names,not italian or latin american. I just read about SAM GOR, that is heavy. They old as much weight than the mexican cartels and italian groups. If I what I read was accurate then they are above everyone.
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Re: Most Powerful CO in the world
[Re: Revis_Knicks]
#989676
04/19/20 04:52 AM
04/19/20 04:52 AM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,592
m2w
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,592
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would also like to know those on here what there thoughts r on an organization in asia known as SAM GOR. looks to be an alliance/syndicate of the 14k triad,wo shing wo,sun yee on,big circle gang and the bamboo union the Boss is tse chi lop a canadian/chinese citizen. he has been described as the "el chapo" of asia,whatever that meens. the main m.o. of this alliance is meth/heroin trafficking across asia. with a large asian population in both toronto and vancouver and consistent large meth,heroin,fentanyl,precursor chems and other drug busts in these cities i wonder if this organization has began penetrating said markets?
since project o phoenix in toronto there has not been a large scale 'ndrangheta drug bust. project sindicato involved some drugs but was mostly focused on on-line gambling and money laundering.
there has also not been any high level mexican cartel drug busts in last few years. 2014 project roadmaster(sinaloa cartel) 2017 project hope(unsure of cartel connection)
i guess what i am putting down is that both above mentioned groups r accused of being high level drug trafficking organizations and in the last 5 yrs they have not been busted. so that would show they r being more insular and not as involved in the direct importation of drugs(possible w/ 'ndrangheta and some mexican cartels)...OR some other group has decided to take over that position of direct supplier to an area like toronto.
in most recent large scale drug busts in GTA the majority of arrested have asian/southeast asian names,not italian or latin american. I just read about SAM GOR, that is heavy. They old as much weight than the mexican cartels and italian groups. If I what I read was accurate then they are above everyone. sam gor seems an interesting subject but according to this article it seems most are media hype especially when some comapres tse chi lop to el chapo or even pablo escobar Asia’s drug ‘kingpin’ more Hollywood than reality In the report, Jeremy Douglas, Southeast Asia and Pacific representative for UNODC, was quoted as saying: “Tse Chi Lop is in the league of El Chapo or maybe Pablo Escobar. The word kingpin often gets thrown around, but there is no doubt it applies here.†Other seasoned observers, however, take issue with the Hollywood-like portrayal of Asia’s drug trade, which they argue is instead run by loosely and informally organized networks, and not by an over-arching, all-powerful “kingpin.†Ko-lin Chin and Sheldon X Zhang, two of America’s most accomplished criminologists, have shown in seminal books like “The Chinese Heroin Trade†and “The Golden Triangle: Inside Southeast Asia’s Drug Trade†as well as numerous papers and articles that “Chinese [drug and crime] networks are horizontally structured, fluid, and opportunistic.†They have also argued that, in private conversations, “even US drug enforcement officials in the field have acknowledged that there are no drug kingpins, or at least they have not seen any in China or Southeast Asia.†Chin and Zhang state categorically in their books and research papers that they have never uncovered any evidence of significant triad involvement in the drug trade. Some triad members may deal in drugs but their main illicit income derives chiefly from enterprises such as construction, extortion, gambling, prostitution and fraud. https://asiatimes.com/2019/12/asias-drug-kingpin-more-hollywood-than-reality/
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Re: Most Powerful CO in the world
[Re: FireHawk]
#989682
04/19/20 01:21 PM
04/19/20 01:21 PM
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,186
TheKillingJoke
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,186
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"Sam Gor" is probably a myth or - as is the case with "Brother's Circle" - just a designation to describe a cooperation between a group of criminals.
And seeing a lot of articles seem to describe them that way; Big Circle Gang isn't a Triad. Triad groups are mostly Hong Kong- and Taiwan-based and are largely connected to a certain community. For instance, 14K has traditionally been the Cantonese group and has a lot of links with Guangdong. Sun Yee On on the other hand is connected to the Teochew community. The Wo Group has different branches; Wo Hop To is traditionally Cantonese, but the biggest out of the Wo branch, Wo Shing Wo, was formed in Sham Shui Po which is a Hakka stronghold. Nowadays their powerbase is more in Tsuen Wan (which is also an area with a strong Hakka contingent, even though most Hakka in Hong Kong are speaking Cantonese these days). The Bamboo Union in Taiwan on the other hand is connected to the Mandarin-speakers (from Sichuan, Yunnan, Zheijan, Anhui, Jiangsu, Jiangxi) who came to Taiwan.
Big Circle Gang on the other hand was more formed as an organized street gang consisting of Cantonese/Taishanese speakers from the Guangdong province. Largely Guangdong (especially from Guangzhou and the outskirts) based criminals that aren't directly connected/employed by a Triad organization (loosely) band together to conduct criminal operations.
Last edited by TheKillingJoke; 04/19/20 01:22 PM.
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Re: Most Powerful CO in the world
[Re: TheKillingJoke]
#989719
04/20/20 12:40 AM
04/20/20 12:40 AM
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,304
Revis_Knicks
Was: Revis_Island
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Was: Revis_Island
Underboss
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,304
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"Sam Gor" is probably a myth or - as is the case with "Brother's Circle" - just a designation to describe a cooperation between a group of criminals.
And seeing a lot of articles seem to describe them that way; Big Circle Gang isn't a Triad. Triad groups are mostly Hong Kong- and Taiwan-based and are largely connected to a certain community. For instance, 14K has traditionally been the Cantonese group and has a lot of links with Guangdong. Sun Yee On on the other hand is connected to the Teochew community. The Wo Group has different branches; Wo Hop To is traditionally Cantonese, but the biggest out of the Wo branch, Wo Shing Wo, was formed in Sham Shui Po which is a Hakka stronghold. Nowadays their powerbase is more in Tsuen Wan (which is also an area with a strong Hakka contingent, even though most Hakka in Hong Kong are speaking Cantonese these days). The Bamboo Union in Taiwan on the other hand is connected to the Mandarin-speakers (from Sichuan, Yunnan, Zheijan, Anhui, Jiangsu, Jiangxi) who came to Taiwan.
Big Circle Gang on the other hand was more formed as an organized street gang consisting of Cantonese/Taishanese speakers from the Guangdong province. Largely Guangdong (especially from Guangzhou and the outskirts) based criminals that aren't directly connected/employed by a Triad organization (loosely) band together to conduct criminal operations.
Thank you for the clarification. I see you on here from time to time and I really enjoy your posts. I just wanted to let you know that.
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Re: Most Powerful CO in the world
[Re: Revis_Knicks]
#989724
04/20/20 02:25 AM
04/20/20 02:25 AM
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,186
TheKillingJoke
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,186
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"Sam Gor" is probably a myth or - as is the case with "Brother's Circle" - just a designation to describe a cooperation between a group of criminals.
And seeing a lot of articles seem to describe them that way; Big Circle Gang isn't a Triad. Triad groups are mostly Hong Kong- and Taiwan-based and are largely connected to a certain community. For instance, 14K has traditionally been the Cantonese group and has a lot of links with Guangdong. Sun Yee On on the other hand is connected to the Teochew community. The Wo Group has different branches; Wo Hop To is traditionally Cantonese, but the biggest out of the Wo branch, Wo Shing Wo, was formed in Sham Shui Po which is a Hakka stronghold. Nowadays their powerbase is more in Tsuen Wan (which is also an area with a strong Hakka contingent, even though most Hakka in Hong Kong are speaking Cantonese these days). The Bamboo Union in Taiwan on the other hand is connected to the Mandarin-speakers (from Sichuan, Yunnan, Zheijan, Anhui, Jiangsu, Jiangxi) who came to Taiwan.
Big Circle Gang on the other hand was more formed as an organized street gang consisting of Cantonese/Taishanese speakers from the Guangdong province. Largely Guangdong (especially from Guangzhou and the outskirts) based criminals that aren't directly connected/employed by a Triad organization (loosely) band together to conduct criminal operations.
Thank you for the clarification. I see you on here from time to time and I really enjoy your posts. I just wanted to let you know that. Thanks!
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