1 registered members (1 invisible),
719
guests, and 23
spiders. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Forums21
Topics42,930
Posts1,073,144
Members10,349
|
Most Online1,100 Jun 10th, 2024
|
|
|
Re: If you could ask one question
[Re: Turnbull]
#984559
01/13/20 04:05 PM
01/13/20 04:05 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,029 Texas
olivant
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,029
Texas
|
Vito never officially designated an underboss in the movie, though I think it's safe to say that Sonny was the de facto underboss. Early in the novel, Vito was worried about who would succeed him: Sonny was too impulsive, Fredo was weak, and Michael wasn't in the Family business. In a flashback scene in the novel (the one with the crooked boiler "repairmen"), Vito delegates Sonny to handle them because he was "thinking of making Sonny his underboss." ...and, of course, Sonny handled it in his usual heavy handed way that was discouraging to Vito. This highlights several inconsistencies in the novel and films: no apparent underboss; when was Vito (or for that matter, any of his boys) made? Why would Vito tell his capos that they could someday form their own families?; Why only two capos? I'm sure that ya'll can think of others.
"Generosity. That was my first mistake." "Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us." "Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
|
|
|
Re: If you could ask one question
[Re: olivant]
#984562
01/13/20 04:25 PM
01/13/20 04:25 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,624 AZ
Turnbull
OP
|
OP
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,624
AZ
|
...and, of course, Sonny handled it in his usual heavy handed way that was discouraging to Vito.
This highlights several inconsistencies in the novel and films: no apparent underboss; when was Vito (or for that matter, any of his boys) made? Why would Vito tell his capos that they could someday form their own families?; Why only two capos? I'm sure that ya'll can think of others.
Heavy-handed indeed. Puzo says that Vito was not entirely pleased because "Sonny was the club, not the rapier." Inconsistencies? We can spend all day and night on them. Early on, at Connie's wedding, Vito is described as "looking as handsome as the bridegroom in his tuxedo." A bit later, when they visit Genco in the hospital, Dr. Kennedy remarks to himself on Vito "in his ill-fitting tux."
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu, E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu... E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
|
|
|
Re: If you could ask one question
[Re: olivant]
#984583
01/13/20 10:15 PM
01/13/20 10:15 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,304
Revis_Knicks
Was: Revis_Island
|
Was: Revis_Island
Underboss
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,304
|
Vito never officially designated an underboss in the movie, though I think it's safe to say that Sonny was the de facto underboss. Early in the novel, Vito was worried about who would succeed him: Sonny was too impulsive, Fredo was weak, and Michael wasn't in the Family business. In a flashback scene in the novel (the one with the crooked boiler "repairmen"), Vito delegates Sonny to handle them because he was "thinking of making Sonny his underboss." ...and, of course, Sonny handled it in his usual heavy handed way that was discouraging to Vito. This highlights several inconsistencies in the novel and films: no apparent underboss; when was Vito (or for that matter, any of his boys) made? Why would Vito tell his capos that they could someday form their own families?; Why only two capos? I'm sure that ya'll can think of others. I felt the same way about them getting made. I think it is implied that they were but we just didn’t get to see the ceremony. So I don’t take much exception with that. This was in the 40s also so I think that the mafia had a real sense of being family driven and tight knit at the time as well which is why Vito only trusted Clemenza and Tessio to be his capos. Vito was not a greedy man like Michael ended up being. So I do not think he would have minded it if his capos started their own family eventually because he trusted them.
Last edited by Revis_Knicks; 01/13/20 10:16 PM.
|
|
|
Re: If you could ask one question
[Re: The Last Woltz]
#984686
01/15/20 11:04 PM
01/15/20 11:04 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 770
Trojan
Underboss
|
Underboss
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 770
|
I also think that people are a bit too negative towards GFIII. I felt it was a good movie, just not at the level of the other 2.
Were there things in it that didn't make sense or were poorly explained? Sure, but that's true of the first 2 movies as well (e.g. who opened the drapes). But, while people think those details add to the intrigue of GF and GFII, they use them to dismiss GFIII.
To me, the main area in which GFIII doesn't hold up to its predecessors is in the acting. Eli Wallach and, especially, Sofia Coppola were TERRIBLE.
Maybe the real question should be how different GFIII would have been had Winona Ryder not backed out. I might be in the minority here but I reckon Sofia played the spoilt, entitled rich daughter okay
|
|
|
Re: If you could ask one question
[Re: Turnbull]
#984786
01/17/20 02:11 PM
01/17/20 02:11 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,029 Texas
olivant
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,029
Texas
|
Sofia was nowhere near as bad as Eli Wallach. I tend to agree, but I never thought that Sophia's acting was as bad (or even bad) as some Board members portray it. She was playing an 18 year old daughter of one of the wealthiest and powerful men in the world. So, I don't know what some viewers were expecting. I think that some of criticisms are really a function of the story line, story board, and script. I and II spoiled us because one of I and II's enduring qualities was the selection of actors who met our expectations of the physical appearance of those characters.For one, the actor who portrayed the character (whose name I can't recall) who was murdered by Calo with his glasses not only didn't look Italian, but his voice sounded decidedly German (like a character from Hogan's Heroes). We didn't care for the George Hamilton character because we were expecting a Tom Hagen in the form of Robert Duvall.
"Generosity. That was my first mistake." "Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us." "Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
|
|
|
Re: If you could ask one question
[Re: Revis_Knicks]
#984894
01/19/20 01:05 AM
01/19/20 01:05 AM
|
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,011 Australia
Kangaroo Don
Underboss
|
Underboss
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,011
Australia
|
I felt the same way about them getting made. I think it is implied that they were but we just didn’t get to see the ceremony. So I don’t take much exception with that. This was in the 40s also so I think that the mafia had a real sense of being family driven and tight knit at the time as well which is why Vito only trusted Clemenza and Tessio to be his capos. Vito was not a greedy man like Michael ended up being. So I do not think he would have minded it if his capos started their own family eventually because he trusted them. My take, for what it is worth! I believe Vito “would have minded it if his capos started their own family†alongside the Corleones especially as he needs “trusted Clemenza and Tessio [!] to be his capos†Vito would let the above happen, only once the Corleones were no longer in New York ie: not in coexistence with the Corleones In my view, Vito always the ‘nice’ guy Vito says a lot of things he doesn’t mean nor have any intentions of implementing, even when detrimental to Michael
|
|
|
Re: If you could ask one question
[Re: Turnbull]
#984992
01/20/20 10:28 PM
01/20/20 10:28 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,304
Revis_Knicks
Was: Revis_Island
|
Was: Revis_Island
Underboss
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,304
|
|
|
|
Re: If you could ask one question
[Re: Kangaroo Don]
#985301
01/24/20 11:19 PM
01/24/20 11:19 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 770
Trojan
Underboss
|
Underboss
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 770
|
Sofia was nowhere near as bad as Eli Wallach. I too felt Sofia was alright especially compared to the performances of quite a few of the seasoned actors.... She did alright in spite of incest storyline and dubious dialogue
|
|
|
Re: If you could ask one question
[Re: Revis_Knicks]
#985860
02/04/20 01:24 AM
02/04/20 01:24 AM
|
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,011 Australia
Kangaroo Don
Underboss
|
Underboss
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,011
Australia
|
Michael's greed Extracts: Vito was not a greedy man like Michael ended up being Success?If Michael had not been greedy, burrowing into Roth's empire ie: satisfied with his Nevada gambling business, Roth and Ola would have had no reason to cultivate Fredo to betray Michael and the Tahoe bedroom shooting would not have happened It seems to me, on further review! Michael wasn't greedy as such because Michael thought “Roth acts like I'm his son, his successor†and Roth was 'gifting'! Michael Roth's business until the Tahoe shooting
|
|
|
Re: If you could ask one question
[Re: Capri]
#986215
02/10/20 01:19 AM
02/10/20 01:19 AM
|
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,011 Australia
Kangaroo Don
Underboss
|
Underboss
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,011
Australia
|
Didn't he move Klingman out of casino owned by Roth Sure thing Capri However Michael didn't act on it until Roth's blessing! Johnny Ola to Michael at Anthony's party and Michael believed! Roth's message not even suspecting Tahoe shooting was in store for him Extracts: “The casino you're interested in.....I've been instructed to tell you that if you move Klingman out, our friend in Miami, Roth the real owner [with the old Lakeville Road group from Cleveland] will go along†Michael: “That is very kind of him. You tell him, that's greatly appreciated†As per the Board's productive and weighty discussions - the Trilogy theme of under / over estimating each other, both Michael and Roth were initially underestimating each other Then Michael and Roth were flattering and playing each other even after the Tahoe shooting when Michael twigged “It was Roth who tried to kill me in my home. It was Roth all along†The charade finally exposed with Michael's “Who had Frank Pentangeli killed?†and Roth's soliloquy
|
|
|
Re: If you could ask one question
[Re: Turnbull]
#986325
02/12/20 01:35 PM
02/12/20 01:35 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,029 Texas
olivant
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,029
Texas
|
Expanding on the Castellano and Michael comparisons, what qualities separated Michael from Castellano? While Castellano had a big legitimate business (wholesale meat), he never pretended to be anything other than the Don of the Gambino family. He was also a near-recluse. Michael tried to convince himself that he was no different than other powerful men, and was obsessed with appearing legitimate. Look at Anthony's party. Look at the money he contributed to charities and legitimate causes in II and III--Castellano never did that. TB, did you watch Michael's Franzese's interview about his sitdown with Castellano about bad chicken?
"Generosity. That was my first mistake." "Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us." "Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
|
|
|
Re: If you could ask one question
[Re: Capri]
#986354
02/13/20 01:07 AM
02/13/20 01:07 AM
|
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,011 Australia
Kangaroo Don
Underboss
|
Underboss
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,011
Australia
|
How senator Geary find out about Klingman If your question is, how did Senator Geary find out about the Corleones plan to to move Klingman out? Extract: Geary tells Michael “Now, my sources tell me that you plan to make a move - within a week, you're gonna move Klingman out†Once again Consigliere Tom didn't dig deep enough same as Sollozzo's drug proposal unlike Geary's sources
|
|
|
Re: If you could ask one question
[Re: Capri]
#986380
02/13/20 03:42 PM
02/13/20 03:42 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,624 AZ
Turnbull
OP
|
OP
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,624
AZ
|
Whose ass should I kick?
Vito for appointing Tom consigliere or Tom a good lawyer not Mafia consigliere Both I started a thread on this subject here: http://www.gangsterbb.net/threads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=761864&Searchpage=1&Main=29538&Words=%2Bliability&Search=true#Post761864
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu, E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu... E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
|
|
|
Re: If you could ask one question
[Re: Kangaroo Don]
#986406
02/13/20 11:24 PM
02/13/20 11:24 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 770
Trojan
Underboss
|
Underboss
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 770
|
Once again Consigliere Tom didn't dig deep enough same as Sollozzo's drug proposal unlike Geary's sources In fairness to Tom, I reckon in this instance Tom might not have been incompetent The registered owners are Jacob Lawrence, Allen Barclay both Beverly Hills Attorneys The real owners are the old Lakeville Road group from Cleveland and Roth Meyer Klingman, the licensee runs the store, a piece of it, too It is not rocket science! for Geary to figure if Michael is interested in the casino, he has to move someone out and to get the license it had to be Klingman
|
|
|
|