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Re: Sicily's Mafia primed for reversal of fortune [Re: m2w] #978322
09/17/19 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by m2w
Originally Posted by Revis_Island

How could people like Riina and Denaro ever be considered big and powerful bosses when they are really just doing the dirty work for more powerful people in their own country like you said? I think it would be hard for the Freemasons to take on the whole Sicilian mafia if they ever were at odds.


it's not like the freemasons go to the mafiosi and order them to do it, they just discuss and the mafia kills only if there is a convergence of interests and the freemasons return the favour... anyway it seems there is a super-cupola formed by both freemasons, secret services and mafia/ndrangheta/camorra/sacra corona bosses that rules the whole italy


It appears that that is the case with the super cupola. Everything I’ve read points to the Ndrangheta being the top brass in Italy right now.

Re: Sicily's Mafia primed for reversal of fortune [Re: Hollander] #978323
09/17/19 06:51 PM
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Did Leggio still hold power within the Corleonesi even with Riina as the boss or was he an afterthought.

Re: Sicily's Mafia primed for reversal of fortune [Re: Revis_Knicks] #978324
09/17/19 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Revis_Island

That makes more sense to me. Equal power but they both use each other for their respective strong suits.


Well i would say freemasonry/secret services are much more powerful than mafia groups.Even back in 1980's when Sicilian Mafia was insanely powerful the P2 had more power , they had members that were CEO of banks, even president of Vatican bank was member, depends on how u define power.But that is type of people who almost never go to prison and no one really knows who they are.


"A fish with his mouth closed never get's caught"
Re: Sicily's Mafia primed for reversal of fortune [Re: Strax] #978325
09/17/19 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Strax
Originally Posted by Revis_Island

That makes more sense to me. Equal power but they both use each other for their respective strong suits.


Well i would say freemasonry/secret services are much more powerful than mafia groups.Even back in 1980's when Sicilian Mafia was insanely powerful the P2 had more power , they had members that were CEO of banks, even president of Vatican bank was member, depends on how u define power.But that is type of people who almost never go to prison and no one really knows who they are.


I would say it evens out because the mafia would get their hands dirty and I am sure they could also blackmail Freemasons with information that they had on them if needed. Both the mafia and Freemasons were among the richest people in Italy but I think both used each other to further their agendas. The mafia was using P2 member Roberto Calvi to launder their illegal revenue.

Re: Sicily's Mafia primed for reversal of fortune [Re: Hollander] #978326
09/17/19 08:40 PM
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Is it safe to say that Riina was the king of heroin? And if so, how did he compare to some of the cocaine kingpins of his time? Nobody compares to Escobar and his power when his organization was at its height but what about someone like Freeway Rick Ross who was making a tremendous amount of money from cocaine in America at the time? There were many drug kingpins in America who were dealing with hundreds and maybe thousands of kilos a week.

Last edited by Revis_Island; 09/17/19 08:45 PM.
Re: Sicily's Mafia primed for reversal of fortune [Re: Revis_Knicks] #978344
09/18/19 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Revis_Island
Is it safe to say that Riina was the king of heroin? And if so, how did he compare to some of the cocaine kingpins of his time? Nobody compares to Escobar and his power when his organization was at its height but what about someone like Freeway Rick Ross who was making a tremendous amount of money from cocaine in America at the time? There were many drug kingpins in America who were dealing with hundreds and maybe thousands of kilos a week.


riina was not a narcoboss, he was a power syndicate boss, he probably never saw any drugs in his life, he killed the heroin kings (badalamenti, bontade, inzerillo etc.), he ordered to kill leonardo caruana and he wanted to kill alfonso caruana, he destroied the sicilian clans that dominated the drug trade or forced them to pay part of earnings to him or the commission

Re: Sicily's Mafia primed for reversal of fortune [Re: m2w] #978360
09/18/19 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by m2w
Originally Posted by Revis_Island
Is it safe to say that Riina was the king of heroin? And if so, how did he compare to some of the cocaine kingpins of his time? Nobody compares to Escobar and his power when his organization was at its height but what about someone like Freeway Rick Ross who was making a tremendous amount of money from cocaine in America at the time? There were many drug kingpins in America who were dealing with hundreds and maybe thousands of kilos a week.


riina was not a narcoboss, he was a power syndicate boss, he probably never saw any drugs in his life, he killed the heroin kings (badalamenti, bontade, inzerillo etc.), he ordered to kill leonardo caruana and he wanted to kill alfonso caruana, he destroied the sicilian clans that dominated the drug trade or forced them to pay part of earnings to him or the commission


I was not aware of that. How did he feel about his colleague Luciano Leggio who tried to control the heroin market then? And where was his main source of income if not drugs? $125 million worth of assets were reportedly seized from his estate.

Re: Sicily's Mafia primed for reversal of fortune [Re: Hollander] #978368
09/18/19 11:21 PM
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Badalamenti was a big pusher but I read somewhere that him and his son could not post a multi million dollar bail. That surprises me. It is a lot of money but I would be likely to believe that a big drug mover like badalamenti would be able to post his bail without a problem. Unless he was trying to keep a low profile and really portray himself as a man who had no such money as the FBI had reported.

Re: Sicily's Mafia primed for reversal of fortune [Re: Hollander] #978382
09/19/19 01:50 PM
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Drugs and mafia, 40 arrests in Catania

Maxi operation of the State police in Catania. Forty restrictive measures ordered by the district prosecutor against two criminal groups accused of criminal association for the purpose of trafficking and dealing in drugs, aggravated by the mafia method. The two organizations operated in the capital of Etna and are attributable to the Cappello-Bonaccorsi and Cursoti Milanese clans.

https://www.tellerreport.com/news/2...a--40-arrests-in-catania-.BkmHt9xwS.html


Last edited by m2w; 09/19/19 01:52 PM.
Re: Sicily's Mafia primed for reversal of fortune [Re: Hollander] #978383
09/19/19 01:57 PM
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Riina was into heroin trafficking, once he killed everyone that previously controlled it , he took over with his own refinery and his own people.After Bontade was killed ,one of his best man Francesco Marino Mannoia started working for Corleonesi.


"A fish with his mouth closed never get's caught"
Re: Sicily's Mafia primed for reversal of fortune [Re: Strax] #978384
09/19/19 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Strax
Riina was into heroin trafficking, once he killed everyone that previously controlled it , he took over with his own refinery and his own people.After Bontade was killed ,one of his best man Francesco Marino Mannoia started working for Corleonesi.


With all the money that the Palermo families had, how come they couldn’t acquire the needed resources to win the war against Riina and the Corleonesi? I’m not exactly positive that Badalementi was in the best place because he was forced to leave and he and his son reportedly could not pay the million dollar bail money required to get them out of jail. But Bontade was a Freemason and he has tremendous wealth. Maybe even the richest man in the mafia at the time.

Re: Sicily's Mafia primed for reversal of fortune [Re: Revis_Knicks] #978385
09/19/19 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Revis_Island

With all the money that the Palermo families had, how come they couldn’t acquire the needed resources to win the war against Riina and the Corleonesi? I’m not exactly positive that Badalementi was in the best place because he was forced to leave and he and his son reportedly could not pay the million dollar bail money required to get them out of jail. But Bontade was a Freemason and he has tremendous wealth. Maybe even the richest man in the mafia at the time.


It had nothing to do with money and resources , Riina outsmarted and outplayed all of them , it took them some time to realize what is happening and who is pulling the strings.One of the first to realize what Riina was doing was Giuseppe Di Cristina but he was killed shortly after. You should watch series called "Il capo dei capi" about Riina's life and all that events , its very well done.


"A fish with his mouth closed never get's caught"
Re: Sicily's Mafia primed for reversal of fortune [Re: Hollander] #978388
09/19/19 05:49 PM
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The Corleonesi were very sneaky their enemies didn't know what hit them. They didn't even know how many members the Corleonesi had Riina also used the rules against them or just changed them lol..


"The king is dead, long live the king!"
Re: Sicily's Mafia primed for reversal of fortune [Re: Strax] #978397
09/19/19 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Strax
Originally Posted by Revis_Island

With all the money that the Palermo families had, how come they couldn’t acquire the needed resources to win the war against Riina and the Corleonesi? I’m not exactly positive that Badalementi was in the best place because he was forced to leave and he and his son reportedly could not pay the million dollar bail money required to get them out of jail. But Bontade was a Freemason and he has tremendous wealth. Maybe even the richest man in the mafia at the time.


It had nothing to do with money and resources , Riina outsmarted and outplayed all of them , it took them some time to realize what is happening and who is pulling the strings.One of the first to realize what Riina was doing was Giuseppe Di Cristina but he was killed shortly after. You should watch series called "Il capo dei capi" about Riina's life and all that events , its very well done.


I will watch it. Is it in English? Buscetta said that the tension between the Palermo and corleone factions under Leggio. He used to undermine the Palermo bosses in meetings and he wanted to take the drug market away from them.

Re: Sicily's Mafia primed for reversal of fortune [Re: Hollander] #978398
09/19/19 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Hollander
The Corleonesi were very sneaky their enemies didn't know what hit them. They didn't even know how many members the Corleonesi had Riina also used the rules against them or just changed them lol..


Riina was illiterate but it sounded like he was smart to a point if he was able to pull off a coup right from underneath some of the most powerful organized crime families in the world at the time. We mentioned Badalamenti and Bontade, who else were some big earners during this time? Denaro is a billionaire but at this time he was not the boss.

Re: Sicily's Mafia primed for reversal of fortune [Re: Hollander] #978399
09/19/19 08:02 PM
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Riina and Bagarella were brutal but the brains was Bernardo Provenzano. Messina Denaro is a Provenzano guy.


"The king is dead, long live the king!"
Re: Sicily's Mafia primed for reversal of fortune [Re: Hollander] #978407
09/19/19 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Hollander
Riina and Bagarella were brutal but the brains was Bernardo Provenzano. Messina Denaro is a Provenzano guy.


How much did mafiosi like Provenzano and Denaro model themselves after the entrepreneurial model that American LCN set? We have said many times on here that the Italian Americans were once the ones enjoying the riches while the Italians were seen as farmers who did not make money nor had political connections. That soon flipped and the Italians began dealing with money that was unheard of in the states unless you were a billionaire businessman. I know I have asked this before but what stopped the Americans from graduating to the level of some of the top Italian bosses in the area of wealth and connections? Was it informants and tougher laws against crime/prisons? After Carlo Gambino I think there was a clear lack of leadership in taking the movement that Americans like him, Luciano, Costello, and Lucchese tried to push forward. I think American mafiosi like those that I mentioned wanted to turn their families into massive organizations rooted in the country like JP Morgan Chase.

Last edited by Revis_Island; 09/19/19 10:22 PM.
Re: Sicily's Mafia primed for reversal of fortune [Re: Revis_Knicks] #978424
09/20/19 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Revis_Island
Riina was illiterate but it sounded like he was smart to a point if he was able to pull off a coup right from underneath some of the most powerful organized crime families in the world at the time. We mentioned Badalamenti and Bontade, who else were some big earners during this time? Denaro is a billionaire but at this time he was not the boss.


inzerillo, totò minore, the salvo brothers, were all big earners too

Re: Sicily's Mafia primed for reversal of fortune [Re: m2w] #978433
09/20/19 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by m2w
Originally Posted by Revis_Island
Riina was illiterate but it sounded like he was smart to a point if he was able to pull off a coup right from underneath some of the most powerful organized crime families in the world at the time. We mentioned Badalamenti and Bontade, who else were some big earners during this time? Denaro is a billionaire but at this time he was not the boss.


inzerillo, totò minore, the salvo brothers, were all big earners too


I have never heard of Minore. Were the Salvo brothers actually members of the mafia? I thought they were politicians and businessmen who just had a lot of connections to the underworld. I read online that Bontade had around 10 billion lire in cash. Not positive how accurate that is. That’s around $5 million.

Last edited by Revis_Island; 09/20/19 09:09 PM.
Re: Sicily's Mafia primed for reversal of fortune [Re: Revis_Knicks] #978451
09/21/19 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Revis_Island
Originally Posted by Hollander
Riina and Bagarella were brutal but the brains was Bernardo Provenzano. Messina Denaro is a Provenzano guy.


How much did mafiosi like Provenzano and Denaro model themselves after the entrepreneurial model that American LCN set? We have said many times on here that the Italian Americans were once the ones enjoying the riches while the Italians were seen as farmers who did not make money nor had political connections.


I think a lot, after Riina's war against the State and the hardliners in jail Provenzano and later Denaro proposed a new, less violent strategy. Coexistence with state institutions similar to how LCN operates. Salvatore Lo Piccolo did the same in Palermo.

Last edited by Hollander; 09/21/19 07:59 AM.

"The king is dead, long live the king!"
Re: Sicily's Mafia primed for reversal of fortune [Re: Revis_Knicks] #978455
09/21/19 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Revis_Island

I have never heard of Minore. Were the Salvo brothers actually members of the mafia? I thought they were politicians and businessmen who just had a lot of connections to the underworld. I read online that Bontade had around 10 billion lire in cash. Not positive how accurate that is. That’s around $5 million.


totò minore was the boss of trapani, the salvo were also members of the mafia (salemi family) and they managed the collection of taxes throughout sicily
anyway at that time several mafiosi became quickly very rich

Re: Sicily's Mafia primed for reversal of fortune [Re: m2w] #978461
09/21/19 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by m2w

totò minore was the boss of trapani, the salvo were also members of the mafia (salemi family) and they managed the collection of taxes throughout sicily
anyway at that time several mafiosi became quickly very rich


Thats when they started working with drugs big time , old bosses who were against drugs were getting eliminated , drugs brought them A LOT of money but also a lot more greed,violence,murders and so on.


"A fish with his mouth closed never get's caught"
Re: Sicily's Mafia primed for reversal of fortune [Re: m2w] #978465
09/21/19 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by m2w
Originally Posted by Revis_Island

I have never heard of Minore. Were the Salvo brothers actually members of the mafia? I thought they were politicians and businessmen who just had a lot of connections to the underworld. I read online that Bontade had around 10 billion lire in cash. Not positive how accurate that is. That’s around $5 million.


totò minore was the boss of trapani, the salvo were also members of the mafia (salemi family) and they managed the collection of taxes throughout sicily
anyway at that time several mafiosi became quickly very rich


I read that the Salvo brothers were not involved in the day to day operations of the mafia but that sounds like a cover. Prior to Riina was Bontade the boss that everyone looked to? Also, I think the 5 billion lire in cash was more than likely just a small fraction of what was traced back to him. Law enforcement could not trace much money back to him at all.

Re: Sicily's Mafia primed for reversal of fortune [Re: Strax] #978466
09/21/19 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Strax
Originally Posted by m2w

totò minore was the boss of trapani, the salvo were also members of the mafia (salemi family) and they managed the collection of taxes throughout sicily
anyway at that time several mafiosi became quickly very rich


Thats when they started working with drugs big time , old bosses who were against drugs were getting eliminated , drugs brought them A LOT of money but also a lot more greed,violence,murders and so on.


Drugs prevented them from going legitimate. I don’t think anyone can be a legitimate businessman once they are labeled a drug trafficker. That is why many mafiosi who were heavily involved would never admit they were involved with drugs. Zaza has said he was never a drug trafficker. Law enforcement says different.

Re: Sicily's Mafia primed for reversal of fortune [Re: Hollander] #978467
09/21/19 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Hollander
Originally Posted by Revis_Island
Originally Posted by Hollander
Riina and Bagarella were brutal but the brains was Bernardo Provenzano. Messina Denaro is a Provenzano guy.


How much did mafiosi like Provenzano and Denaro model themselves after the entrepreneurial model that American LCN set? We have said many times on here that the Italian Americans were once the ones enjoying the riches while the Italians were seen as farmers who did not make money nor had political connections.


I think a lot, after Riina's war against the State and the hardliners in jail Provenzano and later Denaro proposed a new, less violent strategy. Coexistence with state institutions similar to how LCN operates. Salvatore Lo Piccolo did the same in Palermo.


It appears that way. The mafia in Sicily is not nearly as violent as they were under Riina. I think they were all on Riina’s side until he started to kill magistrates. Is there any truth tothe theory that provenzano sold Riina out?

Re: Sicily's Mafia primed for reversal of fortune [Re: Revis_Knicks] #978471
09/21/19 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Revis_Island

I read that the Salvo brothers were not involved in the day to day operations of the mafia but that sounds like a cover. Prior to Riina was Bontade the boss that everyone looked to? Also, I think the 5 billion lire in cash was more than likely just a small fraction of what was traced back to him. Law enforcement could not trace much money back to him at all.


the salvo brothers were both made members of cosa nostra (salemi family)
most of money of bontade, inzerillo and badalamenti was not seized, leonardo badalamenti has an empire in brazil, the inzerillo's in the states, bontade's in italy
the son of stefano bontade (francesco paolo) was released from prison in 2015

Re: Sicily's Mafia primed for reversal of fortune [Re: Revis_Knicks] #978472
09/21/19 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Revis_Island
Originally Posted by Hollander
Originally Posted by Revis_Island
Originally Posted by Hollander
Riina and Bagarella were brutal but the brains was Bernardo Provenzano. Messina Denaro is a Provenzano guy.


How much did mafiosi like Provenzano and Denaro model themselves after the entrepreneurial model that American LCN set? We have said many times on here that the Italian Americans were once the ones enjoying the riches while the Italians were seen as farmers who did not make money nor had political connections.


I think a lot, after Riina's war against the State and the hardliners in jail Provenzano and later Denaro proposed a new, less violent strategy. Coexistence with state institutions similar to how LCN operates. Salvatore Lo Piccolo did the same in Palermo.


It appears that way. The mafia in Sicily is not nearly as violent as they were under Riina. I think they were all on Riina’s side until he started to kill magistrates. Is there any truth tothe theory that provenzano sold Riina out?


They have returned to the old Cosa Nostra, when guys like Luciano, Bonanno, Galante had a strong influence that's why they picked Settimo Mineo who has strong links to the USA.


"The king is dead, long live the king!"
Re: Sicily's Mafia primed for reversal of fortune [Re: m2w] #978513
09/22/19 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by m2w
Originally Posted by Revis_Island

I read that the Salvo brothers were not involved in the day to day operations of the mafia but that sounds like a cover. Prior to Riina was Bontade the boss that everyone looked to? Also, I think the 5 billion lire in cash was more than likely just a small fraction of what was traced back to him. Law enforcement could not trace much money back to him at all.


the salvo brothers were both made members of cosa nostra (salemi family)
most of money of bontade, inzerillo and badalamenti was not seized, leonardo badalamenti has an empire in brazil, the inzerillo's in the states, bontade's in italy
the son of stefano bontade (francesco paolo) was released from prison in 2015


Haven’t seen much about Bontade’s son. Is the Bontade empire still active or was everything taken from him after Rinna?

Re: Sicily's Mafia primed for reversal of fortune [Re: Hollander] #978515
09/22/19 11:47 AM
09/22/19 11:47 AM
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They have returned to the old Cosa Nostra, when guys like Luciano, Bonanno, Galante had a strong influence that's why they picked Settimo Mineo who has strong links to the USA.[/quote]

Did Gambino have as much influence in Italy as Luciano and Bonanno? Luciano was close with Sicilians and Neapolitans during his time in Italy.

Re: Sicily's Mafia primed for reversal of fortune [Re: Hollander] #978521
09/22/19 02:53 PM
09/22/19 02:53 PM
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Hollander Offline OP
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Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 27,082
Sicilians dare to believe: the mafia’s cruel reign is over

As the Cosa Nostra is finally brought to its knees, our reporter recalls his childhood in Palermo when the mob families felt free to murder at will

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/sep/22/mafia-godfathers-sicily-palermo-italy


"The king is dead, long live the king!"
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