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Re: Evolution of American mafia and Italian mafia
[Re: Revis_Knicks]
#976552
08/06/19 11:33 PM
08/06/19 11:33 PM
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 51
Salvie84
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 51
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Re: Evolution of American mafia and Italian mafia
[Re: Salvie84]
#976555
08/07/19 02:08 AM
08/07/19 02:08 AM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,535 AZ
Turnbull
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,535
AZ
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Most Italian immigrants to America were from Sicily and southern Italy, which suffered centuries of foreign domination and oppression. Italian immigrants were the most downtrodden and viciously denigrated whites in America. They were clannish and suspicious of outsiders and outside influences, including the Church and schools. They were easy prey for gangsters of their own kind. There were plenty of smart, ambitious Italian Americans, but absent college education or outside perspectives, some of them ended up in the Mafia, where they gained respect and money. Not so today. Today, college, not the Mob, is the destination for ambitious, young Italian Americans. The Mafia gets the John and Junior Gotti's. Self interest has replaced honore e famiglia in the Mob--it's cosa mia now, not cosa nostra.
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu, E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu... E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
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Re: Evolution of American mafia and Italian mafia
[Re: Revis_Knicks]
#976561
08/07/19 05:48 AM
08/07/19 05:48 AM
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,526
LuanKuci
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,526
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Better law enforcement and less overall corruption (public and private) Better financial opportunities outside of the underworld > smaller recruiting pool. With this in mind, given the many pros of life in America vs Italy (especially S. Italy), I’m amazed by how much it’s still the same rather than how much it has changed. Same applies to Australia, Canada and Germany, three of the wealthiest and most stable nations on the planet along with the USA, yet filled of mafiosi and Mafia activities/influence. You’d think that the American Mafia should have been long gone but, nope, they’re here and, by all accounts, they’re probably enjoying their best run since the 90’s. Self interest has replaced honore e famiglia in the Mob--it's cosa mia now, not cosa nostra. There was never “honor†among them. They’ve always been glorified murderers and thieves, greedy and sociopathic. There were plenty of turncoats since the beginning, despite popular belief. The whole “family†thing was mere folklore to appear closer to the people they would then prey on.
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Re: Evolution of American mafia and Italian mafia
[Re: Turnbull]
#976590
08/07/19 01:44 PM
08/07/19 01:44 PM
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,300
Revis_Knicks
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Was: Revis_Island
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OP
Was: Revis_Island
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Most Italian immigrants to America were from Sicily and southern Italy, which suffered centuries of foreign domination and oppression. Italian immigrants were the most downtrodden and viciously denigrated whites in America. They were clannish and suspicious of outsiders and outside influences, including the Church and schools. They were easy prey for gangsters of their own kind. There were plenty of smart, ambitious Italian Americans, but absent college education or outside perspectives, some of them ended up in the Mafia, where they gained respect and money. Not so today. Today, college, not the Mob, is the destination for ambitious, young Italian Americans. The Mafia gets the John and Junior Gotti's. Self interest has replaced honore e famiglia in the Mob--it's cosa mia now, not cosa nostra. This is very true. The talent pool must’ve been much more rich.
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Re: Evolution of American mafia and Italian mafia
[Re: Revis_Knicks]
#976601
08/07/19 04:29 PM
08/07/19 04:29 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,255 naples,italy
furio_from_naples
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,255
naples,italy
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Tge difference is the italians in america can easly become something without be criminals where in italy for the people that live in the poor zones,joint the criminaj organization is the only way for have a better life. Well yes,but the real power of mafia is secret services and masons , not the guys that end up dealing drugs on streets. That is the main difference. If you had no strong organization the secret services or the masons would never help you. For example the secret services used Cutolo for find where Moro and Cirillo was hidden,but if Cutolo was the NCO head nobody would ask his help. In the 1970s the ndrangheta clans from the cities understood that use and be used by the masons and the services was convenient.But its were already powerful organizations that wanted to make a jump forward and create the "santista" for do it.
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Re: Evolution of American mafia and Italian mafia
[Re: LuanKuci]
#976616
08/07/19 11:07 PM
08/07/19 11:07 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,535 AZ
Turnbull
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,535
AZ
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There was never “honor†among them. They’ve always been glorified murderers and thieves, greedy and sociopathic. There were plenty of turncoats since the beginning, despite popular belief. The whole “family†thing was mere folklore to appear closer to the people they would then prey on.
I agree completely. But, decades ago, a lot of those mooks wanted to believe in all that "honor and family" BS because it somehow made them feel that they weren't just common criminals and scumbags, which they were. And, when opportunities were scarcer for Mafia guys, it was better for them to stand up and take a prison sentence, knowing that they'd have a good living to come back to when they got out. Today, ratting out your "brothers" in the Mob is the ticket out of prison.
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu, E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu... E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
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Re: Evolution of American mafia and Italian mafia
[Re: Revis_Knicks]
#976617
08/08/19 02:00 AM
08/08/19 02:00 AM
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,526
LuanKuci
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,526
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Now it is laughable to even compare their success and wealth to that of the Italians. Quite the opposite actually. There’s nothing laughable about their ability to firmly remain on top. America is a far less fertile ground than Italy, yet according to the most reliable sources, the Italian-American LCN remains among the most influential criminal subcultures around, especially in the North East, America’s financial hub. Not to mention their continuous relationships with Canada and overseas (long believed to be dead and gone). No one is remotely trying to imply that they are as influential on their home turf as Italian mobs are on theirs, but the fact that they face so many adversities and yet they manage to maintain their spot is stunningly remarkable and worrisome. Another aspect I believe plays a role is the fact that America has an ever-changing ethnic landscape, today even faster than in the past. Post-1965 Immigration laws made the USA receive literally millions of non-European immigrants each year (most of whom end up in coastal cities) therefore changing the culture and communities in which they settle. This doesn’t happen in Italy. All “new†ethnic mobs are small potatoes compared to Italian mafias. Foreign crooks are aware they’re guests on someone else’s turf. They know their boundaries. They can prey on their own and occasionally on unaffiliated Italian civilians, as long as they don’t pose a threat to the main traditional Mafias’ interests.
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Re: Evolution of American mafia and Italian mafia
[Re: LuanKuci]
#976653
08/08/19 04:22 PM
08/08/19 04:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,300
Revis_Knicks
OP
Was: Revis_Island
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OP
Was: Revis_Island
Underboss
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,300
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Now it is laughable to even compare their success and wealth to that of the Italians. Quite the opposite actually. There’s nothing laughable about their ability to firmly remain on top. America is a far less fertile ground than Italy, yet according to the most reliable sources, the Italian-American LCN remains among the most influential criminal subcultures around, especially in the North East, America’s financial hub. Not to mention their continuous relationships with Canada and overseas (long believed to be dead and gone). No one is remotely trying to imply that they are as influential on their home turf as Italian mobs are on theirs, but the fact that they face so many adversities and yet they manage to maintain their spot is stunningly remarkable and worrisome. Another aspect I believe plays a role is the fact that America has an ever-changing ethnic landscape, today even faster than in the past. Post-1965 Immigration laws made the USA receive literally millions of non-European immigrants each year (most of whom end up in coastal cities) therefore changing the culture and communities in which they settle. This doesn’t happen in Italy. All “new†ethnic mobs are small potatoes compared to Italian mafias. Foreign crooks are aware they’re guests on someone else’s turf. They know their boundaries. They can prey on their own and occasionally on unaffiliated Italian civilians, as long as they don’t pose a threat to the main traditional Mafias’ interests. I agree that the US Italian mob has still sustained and that should be noted. I am saying that it is laughable to compare the amount of money and influence that the Italians have to any criminal group in the US because they take in so much money and wield so much power. The Ndrangheta in particular. They have invested and cleaned a lot of their money as well. I have always said that the goal for the 5 families was to become like Michael corleone in Godfather 3. They wanted to legitimize their hundreds of millions of dollars(once they made that much).
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Re: Evolution of American mafia and Italian mafia
[Re: Hollander]
#976824
08/10/19 09:00 PM
08/10/19 09:00 PM
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,300
Revis_Knicks
OP
Was: Revis_Island
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OP
Was: Revis_Island
Underboss
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,300
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Did the Italians take from the model that the Italian Americans had originally put in place? The Americans were modern and businessmen, before that the Sicilians were just a bunch of peasants. But the Mafia is a Sicilian thing they had the structure already in the 1800s. Right. I am talking about how the Americans were more business minded and then the Italians followed suit afterward.
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