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Re: Strongest Families at their Peak [Re: OakAsFan] #955362
10/10/18 11:18 PM
10/10/18 11:18 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,624
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,624
AZ
Size matters, obviously, in Tier 1. But, era matters, too, especially since you specified 40s through late 60s. Bonannos fell apart after the Commission removed Joe in the early 60s and replaced him with DiGregorio, triggering a long, destructive internal war, a series of mediocre Dons and the loss of their Commission seat. They didn't get back into Tier 1 until Massino stabilized things in the 90s, and they got back onto the Commission with help from Gotti.

Trafficante could have been near Tier 1 until '59, when Castro nationalized his casinos and cut him off from his source of money and influence. Then he became strictly regional.

DeCavalcante may have been more powerful in the 60s than most thought.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Strongest Families at their Peak [Re: BarrettM] #955422
10/12/18 12:56 AM
10/12/18 12:56 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 840
BarrettM Offline OP
Underboss
BarrettM  Offline OP
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 840
I'm gonna use this thread to post some old mobfacts. Sonny good to be back, thanks for recognizing an old face smile

I would love to do an art project of the US Map that shows just a little bit of the Carribbean and mainland America. Different squares could be used to denote territories for the families. An interactive Cosa Nostra map. The cool thing is, this is very easily done.

TB I agree. The Bonannos and Colombos and Gambinos have always been strongly Brooklyn-based. After the Bonannos were weakened (which you may or may not agree, was due to Joe's non-leadership or lack of leadership) and became aimless, Gaspare DiGregorio was in charge and was a very weak don. His successor, not a lot of people have heard about was Paul Sciacca. Sort of the Underboss to the side of the family that was against Joe. Reading old newspapers, when Joe Colombo came to power, both of them being racketeers from Brooklyn, Colombo horned in on Bonanno rackets, figuring Sciacca was weak. The three families were ebbing back and forth at that time for space in Brooklyn.

It goes to show how rife with drama it was back then.

Re: Strongest Families at their Peak [Re: cookcounty] #955431
10/12/18 05:59 AM
10/12/18 05:59 AM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,710
BillyBrizzi Offline
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BillyBrizzi  Offline
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Originally Posted by cookcounty
@oaksfan

It's amusing how people try to over look Chicago's dominance in the crime world from the 40s to the 80s

Chicago had the backing of the midwest mobs just like new york had the east coast mobs. And the midwest had the more influential unions. That's why the feds focused on Chicago so hard during the late 50s thru 80s


Co-signed 100%


FORTIS FORTUNA IUVAT
Re: Strongest Families at their Peak [Re: BarrettM] #955470
10/12/18 01:08 PM
10/12/18 01:08 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,624
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,624
AZ
Originally Posted by BarrettM

TB I agree. The Bonannos and Colombos and Gambinos have always been strongly Brooklyn-based. After the Bonannos were weakened (which you may or may not agree, was due to Joe's non-leadership or lack of leadership) and became aimless, Gaspare DiGregorio was in charge and was a very weak don. His successor, not a lot of people have heard about was Paul Sciacca. Sort of the Underboss to the side of the family that was against Joe.

Some have said that the reason about half of the Bonannos went with DiGregorio was because Joe made his son Salvatore (Bill) his consigliere, even though Bill had never made his bones formally and was part college educated. Also, about six weeks after Joe's supposed "kidnapping," he began making calls to Bill over a prearranged network of pay phones. Bill never told the remaining Bonanno loyalists that his father was alive, which caused more of them to defect to DiGregorio.
Gaspar was certainly a weak Don, and Sciacca even weaker (Bonanno called him "a nonentity" in his autobiography). Rusty Rastelli wasn't exactly a powerhouse, either.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Strongest Families at their Peak [Re: BarrettM] #955488
10/12/18 03:44 PM
10/12/18 03:44 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 840
BarrettM Offline OP
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BarrettM  Offline OP
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 840
Rastelli had the Persico effect where he couldn't stay out of prison. Worse, he lacked the dark charisma of The Snake. Say what you want about Persico, but he knew how to make an impression. The Colombos wanted him DESPITE his proclivity of getting arrested. He was on record as once asking a young Sammy Gravano to bring him someone's ear using a cleaver who owed him money. Persico's a legendary figure and Rastelli is just the guy who had his family taken from him and barely won it back. Indeed the Bonanno golden age would be under Uncle Joe and silver age under Massino. But they have a history of very weak dons.

I really enjoyed the Bonanno biography. Even if it was self serving it was filled with rich literature, descriptive vacations around Sicily, and smoky rooms where bosses held Commission meetings. Just appreciate it as history. It reminds me a bit of Amore by Roger Friedland, and you have to wonder if life imitated art when the words on the page feel Puzo's writing.

Re: Strongest Families at their Peak [Re: BillyBrizzi] #955490
10/12/18 04:19 PM
10/12/18 04:19 PM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 202
J
JC Offline
Made Member
JC  Offline
J
Made Member
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 202
Originally Posted by BillyBrizzi
Originally Posted by cookcounty
@oaksfan

It's amusing how people try to over look Chicago's dominance in the crime world from the 40s to the 80s

Chicago had the backing of the midwest mobs just like new york had the east coast mobs. And the midwest had the more influential unions. That's why the feds focused on Chicago so hard during the late 50s thru 80s


Co-signed 100%


I don't think that anyone overlooks Chicago's impact on Italian OC, they are recognized by most as the most powerful or second most powerful family during Cosa Nostra's golden age, you can do much better than that.

Re: Strongest Families at their Peak [Re: BarrettM] #955500
10/12/18 06:12 PM
10/12/18 06:12 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,624
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,624
AZ
Originally Posted by BarrettM
. Persico's a legendary figure and Rastelli is just the guy who had his family taken from him and barely won it back. Indeed the Bonanno golden age would be under Uncle Joe and silver age under Massino. But they have a history of very weak dons.

Well put, Barrett. I'm sure you know about the war the Gallos declared on the Profacis ca. 1961. Eldest brother Larry went to a sit-down at the Sahara Lounge in Booklyn, where he was garroted, and saved from death at the last second by a cop who happened to walk in (it was the inspiration for a famous scene in Godfather II). Some say Persico wielded the garrot.

Quote
I really enjoyed the Bonanno biography. Even if it was self serving it was filled with rich literature, descriptive vacations around Sicily, and smoky rooms where bosses held Commission meetings. Just appreciate it as history.

So did I--an excellent read, thanks mostly to his co-author. Bonanno had the last laugh on his fellow Dons. Rudy Giuliani, when he was US Attorney for the Southern District of NY, read "A Man of Honor" [sic] and saw in Bonanno's description of the Commission a perfect example of a Racketeer Influenced Corruptl Organization as per the RICO Act. It resulted in the famous Commission case, which put Persico and two other Dons away with 100-year sentences.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Strongest Families at their Peak [Re: BarrettM] #955501
10/12/18 06:21 PM
10/12/18 06:21 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 4,461
Green Grove Retirement Communi...
OakAsFan Offline
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OakAsFan  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 4,461
Green Grove Retirement Communi...
A few posters here tend to act like nothing exists outside of NY and Philadelphia.

Chicago may not be very active today but in the mob's prime years they were right there with the 5 families, even more powerful in some eras. It was that way from the start. Torrio-Capone-Ricca-Accardo-Giancana-Joe Doves and so on. They had contacts in as high of places as bosses anywhere in the country.


"...the successful annihilation of organized crime's subculture in America would rock the 'legitimate' world's foundation, which would ultimately force fundamental social changes and redistributions of wealth and power in this country. Meyer Lansky's dream was to bond the two worlds together so that one could not survive without the other." - Dan E. Moldea
Re: Strongest Families at their Peak [Re: BarrettM] #955654
10/14/18 02:45 PM
10/14/18 02:45 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 840
BarrettM Offline OP
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BarrettM  Offline OP
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 840
Early Cleveland was very strong. It's even speculated that Frank Milano, the Cleveland Boss (and whose gang is recognized in the Godfather Part 2 as the Lakeview Road Gang I believe) was a founding member of the Commission, making 7 not 8. They had rackets in Kentucky.

Re: Strongest Families at their Peak [Re: BarrettM] #955682
10/14/18 07:30 PM
10/14/18 07:30 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 4,461
Green Grove Retirement Communi...
OakAsFan Offline
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OakAsFan  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 4,461
Green Grove Retirement Communi...
Without a doubt, regarding GF2. The Mayfield Road gang was actually originally called the Lakeview Road gang. Lakeview is the name of the cemetery that runs adjacent to Mayfield Road. Forlenza family in the novel has to be based on the Milanos.


"...the successful annihilation of organized crime's subculture in America would rock the 'legitimate' world's foundation, which would ultimately force fundamental social changes and redistributions of wealth and power in this country. Meyer Lansky's dream was to bond the two worlds together so that one could not survive without the other." - Dan E. Moldea
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