I have been reading alot of your posts and although I think Vincent was a very cool character, he still gets some sharp criticism. I even read a recent post saying he wasn't a true Corleone.

Personally I think Vincent was a very cool character. His intellectual side wasn't flushed out as much, I find, but has all the trapping of the Corleones and has definatly made an admirable ascention to leadership in GF II. I also am glad Sonny's legacy has some continuity in the GF universe.

I always felt Vincent's character was overdone. Like he was acting extra violent and hot tempered so we would know FOR SURE that he was the son of sonny.

I think VInny gets a bad rap because we never get to see his intellectual side, his scheming and politicking, and I dont even know what his role was in the organization before Michael took him under his wing. Andy Garcia did a good job of playing him but his exhancges with SOfia are so uncomfortable to watch (i mean that shes a horrible actress) that it ruins their scenes. All we know about vinny is his ruthlesness and skills with kung fu! (when he kicks the guy that tries to kill him and bridget fonda). I dont see how VInny could take over the reigns of Godfather for he hadnt proved himself as a capable leader. But with michael as his consiglere he might have survived. Michael is the end of the corleones.

I agree.
Vincent was at his "intellectual" best when he was scheming to get close to Michael, at the beginning. We see him crashing the party, buttering up Connie ("How's my favorite aunt?") so she can get him an audience withg Michael, and forcing Michael to pay attention to him with his tale of Zasa's disloyalty. Then, when Michael upbraids him in front of Zasa and orders him to "Make your peace with Mr. Joe Zasa," Vincent realizes that his uncle has chosen sides against him. So he improvises bravely by biting Zasa's ear, thus forcing Michael to choose family ties over business. Thereafter, he's mostly a glorified bodyguard with a hot-tempered streak. Not a very good bodyguard, either, considering that his vaunted "best twins" fell down on the job, resulting in Mary's murder and its aftermath.

We should also recognize that Michael was busily manipulating Vincent even as Vincent thought he was manipulating Michael. I'm sure that Michael knew Zasa was a potential threat to him even before his party--and that others might be threats down the road. The ear-biting scene must have cemented in his mind that he needed someone like Vincent--a pazzo with a violent temper--to scare others and walk through minefields for him.
In one of the most insightful passages in the novel, Michael asks his father why he needed "an animal" like Luca Brazi. The Don replies that "there are men in this world who go about demanding to be killed," and "who do a great deal of harm to others." The trick, said the Don, is that since he doesn't fear death, and is thus extraordinarily useful in some circumstances, you must "make yourself the only person in the world that he truly desires not to kill him. Then he is yours." That's Vincent.

I too like Vincent. I loved Sonny, and wished we'd have seen more of him in GFI, so when Vincent was introduced, I was pleased.

Let's not forget about all the killings at the end of GFIII, what part did he have in planning those? I'd assume a rather large part given he was head of the family at the time.

Godfather trilogy focuses on Michael's life. Michael originally is not a gangster like most of us, so that's why we (May be just I!!) could relate to him and follow him through out the trilogy. He is an educated patriotic war hero who does not want to be like his father but due to circumstances goes against his principals to save his father and his family from danger. He does whatever it takes once he gets into business though, even if it is manipulating Vincent. I agree that Vincent would not make a good legitimate businessman the way Michael wanted, but he was the only one Michael could have count on at that time. His son doesn't like the way his father had chosen so it would not be original to send Michael to hospital and provoke Antony to play Michael again. He needed someone who is raised in NY streets and could deal with gangsters like Zasa. FFC said there is not going to be a part four so, I'm not really thinking about after Michael. I think the trilogy has pointed out its purpose, telling story of an innocent young man who goes in the way of guns and tries to become political and legitimate to get out of the gangster's life but the higher he goes he finds himself among more crooked people. So Vincent here is an element rather than the next hero. But I got to say one interesting element!

I dont really like Vincent, and I have said a lot that he doesnt feel like a real Corleone to me, so maybe thats where you got your intro from. Like other people have said, you never see him actually show his inteligence. Sonny was a smart guy, he just had too short of a fuse. You never see any of Vinnie's brain matter. He just seemed to appear out of nowhere and then he became Mike's successor. Maybe if his scenes showed other sides to him (maybe not focusing so much on his affair w/ Mary) I might feel diffrently.

I really don't like Vincient. Its an interesting plot twist when Sonny's illegitement son pops out of nowhere to get in on the action, but the lines written for him, seem to choppy. One minute he is as hot-headed as Sonny, the next he is as calm as Micheal. I guess they were trying to show all of the brothers through Sonny, but either bad writing or bad acting prevented me from seeing through to this.
I also see that Garcia seems to try too hard to be like the brothers-he kind of overacts. Which I fifnd it weird that I feel this way because I love him in many of his other movies.

Very insightful observations on Vincent dudes. Personally I agree that he doesn't seem to be that much like Michael or Vito and in fact it occured to me earlier that although he had the gusto to be a brave Mafioso, he was a little rash. I do however think his character does make a noble ascent and by FFC's use of imagry by Sicily Vincent is silent, thoughtful and well composed. I think this was FFC's point to point out how much he acts like Michael.

On the other hand I agree he didn't really show his intelligence as he could have. I think it would have been handy for FFC to show some intellectualism in Vincent to fully convince us of his charcater's capacity because as he takes the reigns of the family he seems a bit untested to the audience.

As an extension FFC commented that Vincent was supposed to be an emalgomation of Vito's 3 sons. He had the violent anger of Sonny, charm of Fredo and the Intellect and cold detachment of emotion of Michael. I would add he has the manipulation of Connie as Turnbull so astutly pointed out.

I like the character of Vincent, but I don't necessarily think he'd make the best Don.

Vincent has Sonny's charisma and Vito's compassion for the family but he isn't the level headed thinker that Vito or Michael was.

He seems to act far too rashly (just like Sonny did). His devotion to the family is without question and he is the kind of guy you'd rather have on your side than against you but as a Don he probably wouldn't measure up to Michael or Vito. Sonny loved his family too but he made some bad decisions when he took over while Vito was recovering.

I thought the character of Vincent was ok, up until the scene where Michael turns over power to him. You could tell FFC was trying to draw a parallel between the scene where Vito passes the power onto Michael, and in one of the only times in FFC's career, he failed miserably. What really urked the hell out of me in that scene is that Vincent immediately sits down, and both Neri and Calo and the other dude, whoever the hell that was, automatically go over and kiss Vincent on the hand and say "Don Corleone." Mike had been Don for at least 45 minutes before the first film ended, and after killing off the heads of the Five Families, Moe Greene, and avenging Santino's death by having his own brother-in-law killed, then, AND ONLY THEN, is Michael referred to as Don Corleone. So after the passing of power from Mike to Vincent, I started to loathe him.

I found that scene effective in a sense but lacking in others personally. It shows Michael completly retiring and handing over the power and I know there had to be some symbolic ties in this scene.

I think it was FFC's intention but not the end result to show Vincent under Michael's tutiledge to evolve into a true Corleone. Now, I do think the Zasa killing was well done (it could be argued Michael had gotten too soft and Vincent was just being who he was). But Vincent toward the end is well composed and seems to be thoughtful.

I think were FFC could have done better was flushing out Vincent's intellectual and leadership sides, which he hadn't done. For instance in the scene when they are talking about what to do with Solozzo, Michael automatically takes the riegns, hammers out a plan in no time flat and covers all the angles. The effectivness of that scene is that it convinces us of his abilities. Vincent on the other hand doesn't seem worthy because besides a different way of holding himself his character isn't fully flush out in the same way.

I wish he would have put a little more work into that intention.We harldy ever see Mike and Vinnie together, and unless you're a robot, you cannot possibally collect all that Mike told Vinnie in those few scenes and suddenly become Don material.What FFC should have done is focused more on Mike teaching Vinnie the family ways and less about his relationship w/ Mary, which was pointless.

I agree with you Sonny and this is definatly a short coming of the movie. None of the new characters (Vincent or Mary) were truly evolved or elaborated upon in a way that we grew truly with them or got to know them. I can say they are endearing but at the same time a bit more hollow than the characters in GF I and II.

Also, Vincent was like a lightswitch, he went suddenly from a wiseguy street tough punk with a temper to boot to a quiet and well thought out mature male taking control of a multi-million or billion dollar business that moonlit on the side as a crime family. Come on, FFC should have evolved him a bit more or given at least one scene to convince us of his natural ability.

But I think the true short coming was the fact that FFC wanted to tell more and more and there were so many complex and seemingly intertwined elements in GF III, that I think FFC truly just ran out of space and assumed the slack would be picked up by the audience, which I don't think it fully was.

Don't get me wrong Andy Garcia does a great job as Vincent and I think his acting conveys this evolution as well as anyone could have done. The problem I see is in the story of his evolution itself.