What was the 2012 bust of the Todaro crime family you mentioned?

Ill concede the mortgage fraud was distantly related...but I think i can prove links to the cop eventully

How does Frank Falzone's law firm specializing in debt collection constitute "mob-like" tactics?

Hes the Jojo Corozzo of Buffalo. Hes most likely made and it shows his behavior and ability just veiled in semantics.

"Third queston: I haven't asked this before, but you said James Feliciano was made in 2000, but he was indicted in Feb. 2000? Also, during that time, he lived in Brooklyn.""

Yes, correct...what does living in Brooklyn have to do with it? Easily could commute....planes, trains, cars. Two residences, etc.

""Fifth question:
You said that the existence of the mob in Buffalo is not a secret, and people know what they do. Then why would the area's two leading news stations consistently report, complete with backed up sources, that the family is defunct. Why would acclaimed mob experts and journalists be trying to cover up the existence of this family?""""

Coppolas article in 98 is a great example. Dead in 98, then died in 06-07 then died again last year. Its either over exaggerated or understated and they dont know the full scene/story and/or have unreliable sources they hope are credible. News stations like to sell their stories.

What in this article: https://www.redstate.com/diary/labo...rs-local-91-cant-seem-to-shake-its-past/ - indicates any sort of (current) mob activity

Read the most current article Nickle posted detailing the relations with Falzone and Sansanese. Current? time will tell

Regarding the Ciminelli bust: "Does every construction scam have to do with the Mafia? No, and there is no evidence that this Ciminelli one did. This was a plain and simple scam. What would the mob's role in this be? And don't you think that if there was a mob angle to this then prosecutors, feds and news reporters would lap it up?""

No, but Ciminelli has always been under leaderships thumb and in my opinion provided sub contractors with cake jobs, inflated prices, allowed theft, and kicked up some money.

Is there any evidence that Cohen was a Buffalo crime family associate, and is there any evidence he worked with anyone other than the Luccheses.

The evidence is what was heard by me, and Giacomo, weve been over this. Not every co conspirator gets indicted or is revealed even though it is known

How many of the guys that Sonny linked under are 65?
And, by the way, what happened to the dozens of members and associates from other families like Milwaukee, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, etc.???? Or are your drunk city cops telling you that they are active as well?""""

Theres actually quite a few under 65 and quite a few under 45, a lot that arent even published names anywhere. I have no idea about Milwaukee, Cleveland or Pittsburgh but believe them to be another case of apples and oranges

""Fading is not defunct and the Feds clearly have contrasting thoughts"" - Where are the contrasting thoughts?

FADING IS NOT DEFUNCT....THEY HAVE LABELED THEM DEAD AND FADING IN DIFFERENT REPORTS. TWO DIFFERENT DESIGNATIONS, TWO DIFFERENT DEFINITIONS IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE ENGLISH VOCABULARY

There ya go Nicky....my answers dont require any responses that will simply lead us to the same conclusions.

The fact of the matter is this. The Feds had their foot on Buffalo crime family neck. The family took many hits in the 90's, notably the late 1990's. The Italians were starting to not be a top priority as other dangerous and bigger crime groups started to take center stage. The FBI infomants and wire taps, revealed that Buffalo had lost a lot of its grip it once had. When September 11, 2001 happen, the FBI shifted its resources and personal over to combat terrorism over the next years. They had their foot on the Buffalo crime family necks, but pulled it off and let buffalo breath once again.

I read the article posted by Nickel, it clearly states an associate of the Buffalo Mob, if they no longer exist and they are tied to two other mafia families why add That?
And this is from Canada they could give two ducks about U.S. funding.

Nicky's argument is if he was made he would always be made and that's why the mentioned it, I can see the logic, however, they're saying associate.
An associate can become dis-associated or become associated with another family.

Also, strange that the report is absent of saying the crimes were mafia related.

So strange you have all these arrests and indictments over the years for mafia rackets however, no mention of the mafia.

To me this article supports Rooster because it is congruent with the other say 1/2 dozen articles to whereas there were crimes most often commuted by a mafia family but the reporting leaves that part out.

I mean we all agree that Violi is with atleast one family.

So if they are not listing him as being mafia that supports Roosters argument what also supports Rooster argument is they are saying Violi had cops plural working for him and feeding him Intel and working him to avoid indictment??

Rooster, the name of the cop in the Wilson case is retired detective Daniel Rice. He had connections to the New England and Colombo crime families. I am sure he just got a slap on the wrist.

Rooster or Giacomo, I don't have the articles now but when the Canalside and Harbor Center projects were going on... Didn't Mark Cerrone's construction company in Niagara Falls do a restructuring where he made a female relative the owner of the company to take advantage of minority hiring for the project? And isn't he related to Anthony Cerrone that was arrested in the Local '91 indictments. And wasn't it that female owned construction company that was behind some of the work stoppages for the project. I don't know if this is connected to the mafia, but i want to do some digging and if you have anything, please post.

Not sure on this one, obviously possible. I know 210 is on the rebuild of the Fort Erie Bridge right now and there has been numerous work stoppages already.

I also know that Liunas counterpart in Canada is on the bridge, I would imagine somebody from Canada faction has some connection there, has to in my opinion

In that bust in 1990, a few of the guys were from Fort Erie

Youre welcome Nicky...why so ungrateful?

Never heard of it. But you've yet to respond to the Gagliano thing. Do you believe the New Orleans crime family is active?



Where does he say the Buffalo mafia is dead in 1998? He doesn't. Here's what he says:
""" "We still feel the LCN (La Casa Nostra) is a viable and visible threat to Western New York," says Virgil D. Woolley, acting head of the Buffalo FBI office. But he admits the Buffalo mob has a weak pulse and resuscitation seems unlikely without strong leadership and profitable criminal enterprises.

Still, Woolley refuses to label the mob dead, pointing to telemarketing frauds, infiltration of unions and legitimate businesses, and the possibility that casino gambling might spawn addicts who find only Mafia loan sharks available when they need cash."""

Stop lying to people. Withering does not mean dead. It means that it's in the process of dying.

He says "All but penniless." Not penniless. The difference there is the fact that, whilst some members might still have cash and rackets, the family as a whole is hurting for money. Which is true.

And where does he say they, by 1998, still had leaders? Again, you are lying. He said they are disorganized and without strong leadership. Again, stop lying to people. I think your endgoal here is to say enough blatant lies, such as misquoting articles, in the hope that newcomers to this thread will see it and believe you.

Mature for their age... Jesus Christ.



I understand it's what the mob does. But not bosses. Bosses don't groom teenagers to commit street crimes. Anthony Spero is maybe the closest example I can think of. But even then, they were at least young adults. And they were certainly not "close associates" or "confidants" of Spero.

For a boss to take teenagers under his wing completely undermines the purpose of a chain-of-command. Vincent Gigante's entire downfall was caused when he began being direct with an associate.

Fair enough. Thanks for the response. Why would the Violis/Luppinos get the Musitanos to whack Buffalo's Canadian capo and second-in-command, and then retain ties to the family though?

I was joking, but it was to prove a point, as I mentioned before. Thanks for the response and apology.

Good point. 2006 is a gray point for me in terms of the family's activity. That was when the final FBI chart was released, but logic shows us that the FBI chart simply listed the remaining members as opposed to trying to put together a real structure. It seems that the FBI chart in 2006 remained the same as the structure the decade before, only with dead members taken out, which is why there were only 2 guys to a capo.

I imagine that most people in 2006 weren't ready to say the Buffalo Mafia was DEAD. It had been active a few years prior. And there was definitely still the shell of a structure there. Maybe there was still some guys kicking up. Maybe there were entire crews that were still active, but not in contact with the administration. Who knows.

I don't think it is. I'd say the Trafficante crime family and the Buffalo crime family are in the same league. Both were very powerful in their height. Then, starting in the late 80s, both families began to wane. The Trafficantes began to wane with the death of Santo Trafficante Jr., and the Todaros began to wane due to a huge FBI onslaught. By 1998, the Buffalo mob was "withering," "weak pulse," and almost dead, and the Trafficante crime family were most likely under the control of the Gambinos, and there wasn't much left of them either.

I think that really puts them in the same ballpark. I am basing this off the evidence available from law enforcement, journalists, and mob turncoats.
Of course, in your opinion, the Trafficantes and Buffalo family aren't in the same ballpark at all because you believe Buffalo is still active. But, based on evidence alone, the two families' demise seems to go at a similar rate.
Bufalinos seem to have died out earlier. Then there was a brief attempt at a revival, which didn't work.

JoJo Corozzo Jr. has been alleged by the feds to have arranged mob meetings, and have off-the-record meetings with mob guys, as well as being possibly made. I have never seen anything linking Frank Falzone to anywhere near that sort of behavior.

It's unlikely, that's all.
And he was indicted in Feb. 2000? So was he made in Jan? Bear in mind that the crew probably knew they were under investigation by the feds, the feds are usually very eager to let them know.

Ok, a few things wrong there.
They did not "die" in 1998, and nobody was saying they did. They were in the process of dying. "Weak pulse." "Expired." "But he admits the Buffalo mob has a weak pulse and resuscitation seems unlikely without strong leadership and profitable criminal enterprises."

06 was the last time the FBI considered them alive.

They did not "die" in 2017 "again." The article simply reported how they came to their demise. Nobody was saying "last year the family officially died."

Here's the timeline, which I believe is pretty accurate:
1998 - Withering. Almost dead.
2006 - The feds finally give up on them.
2012 - Joe Todaro's now dead, but journalists doubt anyone will take over.
2017 - Feds and journalists REINFORCE the notion they are dead.

I don't consider that to be a conflicting timeline of events. Of course there was a period of uncertainty. I imagine that it was around 2006 when people became not so sure of the family's activity. The 2006-2012 period was probably when most people, including LE, really didn't know what was going on.

I understand the connection. But I don't think that connection has been there for well over a decade.



I understand his former ties to the mob, but his recent bribery thing doesn't connect to the mob. There was even a CI in that case who couldn't come up with a mob connection.

That all sounds good, but I believe that the FBI targeted the Buffalo mob, took away its best rackets, and the Buffalo mob limped off into the woods and died from its wounds. That's what happened with many other families across America as well.

Youre welcome Nicky. We appreciate your responses. Youre clearly confused when you ask someone a question and they respond. My answers are what I believe not a chance for you to get uoset over and rebuttal. Now go cry because people dont believe you and your articles. It will be ok buddy, youll get through this tough time and be a better person for understanding what the word subjective means.