By the way Rooster, why do you think the Musitanos whacked Papalia and his top lieutenant? For fun? Or to take over their rackets and interests?

By the way @pmac, when did the feds call Violi the underboss of anything?

Peter joined the union in ‘83 as he was about to turn 18. He was a confident of Todaro along with his brother Sam because their Dad was a made man—even though the government could only prove he was an associate. Todaro was grooming them for leadership. The Washington Post article talks about the leadership/advisory position Sam (the younger one) was in before both brothers were suspended and then banned from holding a leadership position for 5 years for leading the dissidents and getting in a fight with Gabe from Rochester who was serving serving as the federal trustee and placed there by Luskin.—Try reading the whole article instead of just skimming for items to prove your point. Sam and Peter fought the federal takeover after their Dad was removed from leadership-because they had been groomed by the Todaros to do so. Not rocket science here!

Yes, that's what I am assuming. Do you know WHY I'm assuming that?

Because with Philly, it has been proven there have been recent making ceremonies, it has been proven there is an active hierarchy, it has been proven there have been active rackets. With Buffalo, there has been no proof of any active rackets, no proof of any recent making ceremonies, no proof of an active hierarchy. There has been zero indication the family is still active. If all it takes is for a former mobbed-up union guy to get busted (with no indication of any sort of mob ties), then you are setting the bar incredibly low.
In fact, with Buffalo, it has been stated on several occasions that the family is no longer active. No hierarchy. No chain of command. No structure. Nada.

You laugh at me for saying "You believe everything you hear", "you are like a puppy." Again, you really don't see the irony here. I don't believe everything I hear. That's why I don't believe YOU. That's why I don't believe some random internet poster who comes on and says that LE has told him the family is active, yet somehow LE denies the family is active. I believe the people that I know for a fact are "in-the-know." The FBI followed these guys around, bugged them, wiretapped them, until they were finally able to deduce the family was dead. DAs, federal prosecutors, all had to make cases against these guys. Once they couldn't make any cases, they realized the family was dead. Scott Deitche is someone with proven inside sources. Key word here: proven. Now, he is pretty sure the family is not active. I concede that he probably doesn't know as much as feds or DAs, but at least he has a proven track record. Ron Fino - the guy doesn't know as much as the feds or DAs, or maybe not even as much as Deitche, but he knows how the family operates and probably still has some friends in Buffalo who are in the know. He said last year the family is defunct, in his eyes. In 2012, he gave an estimation on what the hierarchy would look like.

Nicktfromtampa, and pmac, the feds did not call Joe Violi the underboss, that is from that chart that popped up last year. I have already said said that Domenici his brother would be a better underboss than him, followed by Natale Luppino and Bruno Monaco. Someone said that Monaco had a meet with Musitano two days before he was killed, but I only know about Bruno meeting with Rocco Sollecito on Tuesday night or early Wednesday morning before he was killed that Friday. As I stated before, the Papalia crew and family is a pastured crew, but that does not mean that Monaco can not serve in a diplomatic capacity.

I know. I just wanted pmac himself to admit he was making shit up.

I have never denied they were in leadership positions in the 1990s, I never denied the Gabe from Rochester thing, I never denied that they were suspended.

But Fino went into hiding in early '89. Sam was 18. Pete was 24. For Pete to be a " former member" of the Pizza Gang, and then a corrupt union leadership role, and a "strong associate" of Todaro Jr. is a lot to achieve by the age of 24. All I can say is, what's the point of a chain-of-command if the guy running the entire family is using a teenager as a top aide and confidant for his criminal activities...

Not a top aide for all his criminal activities... just the leadership in 210 he was groomed for—fighting the federal takeover. You can still be a “strong associate” with a focused role. I believe he and his brother worked at LaNova. Would have come up around the same time as little Joey. There is a picture of the “Pizza Gang” working the La Nova Booth at the Italian Festival on Hertle that is floating around. I’ll see if I can find it.

PIZZA 🍕 GANG?

Here is the ebook Dicarlo Volume 2
It covers the Buffalo LCN from the early days until 2012

In detail about Todaro etc.

Also, read the part about Fino, they really rip him apart almost to the point of that everything he says is made up.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SfXErrNv_BATYUmXfTGwm7nf5Z9pP9mS/view?usp=sharing

Pmac is not making shit up, just confusing the sources.

I made a thread, Who are the Violi Brothers??


I think figuring these guys out goes a long way towards explaining whatever there is in Buffalo, Buffalos relationship with Ontario, also the relations between Buffalo, Ontario and the Bonnanos.

I agree

Jesus, I wish I was given that kind of leeway. I said "Vincent LoScalzo is still the boss of the Trafficante crime family in name alone" and I haven't been able to hear the end of it...

This is still going on? The_Rooster, LoScalzo is the official boss of Tampa. Same thing before Figlia passed away, he was the official boss of San Jose, even though Adragna, Ditri, Napolitano and Piazza were still doing business with other families, he was still the official boss.

Thanks Giacomo. It's really a simple thing, don't know why Rooster can't wrap his head around it.

I guess its more of you trying to compare Tampa to Buffalo, thats what I see as ridiculous. Apples and oranges when it comes to modern day Mafia talk.

And I would like to point out something that was brought up a while ago by I forget who...they stated Buffalo is a small city, well technically yes the city is sorta, but the metro is over 1 million.

And again, Nicky, the irony is that the Feds, supposed reputable journalists, and Fino all have conflicting stories.

After reading the epilogue, I actually feel really bad for Carmine Gallo and his mother, Bifulco was putting it on him pretty bad and it caused him his life being associated and his mother being married to him.

As much as we glorify the Mafia by following and talking about it, there really is a sadness to it

In 2017, the feds, DAs, federal prosecutors, Ron Fino, Scott Deitche, and Dan Herbeck all colloborated on a story talking about how the Buffalo mob was no more. That's not conflicting. Maybe in 2012 people weren't so sure. In 2006, the feds wanted to retain a structure (although that structure couldn't have been possible).
Here's the timeline:
2006 - Buffalo mob family has a structure, albeit a confusing and strange one.
2012 - Most people are pretty certain that the Buffalo mob is defunct. Fino suggests a possible structure for the remaining members.
2017 - Everybody agrees the family is defunct.

@ Nicky, except for the Feds have said that Falzone was boss until 2016 and except for the fact there was a bust in 2017.

Hence conflicting stories.

Again, we can go round and round and round and round and disagree. Is it really just you nees the last post on this thread and then youll consider yourself victoriius? What dont you get that that many people still believe the family to be active and viable for a number of reasons?

And we're back to this argument:
A person can be the boss of a family in name alone. Hence Billy D'Elia. Hence Vincent LoScalzo. Hence, as Giacomo said, Figlia. He is the boss, despite the fact that the family he is apart of is defunct. He is the boss in name alone. This isn't apples and oranges. This is the case across Mafia families across America. Buffalo doesn't have special rules meaning it has different terminology. As long as that person never steps down, he is the boss until he dies. It's not difficult. I've explained this dozens of times. I even tried to use a nice little tree analogy for you to understand, and it still went way over your head.
Vincent LoScalzo is the boss of the Trafficante crime family. Is the Trafficante crime family still active? No. It's just happened that the boss and underboss (Frank Albano) have survived while the family around them has perished.

The feds do not consider the Todaro crime family active. They have said explicitly that they don't. Stop propagating this lie.

In 2006, you claim that they have a confusing and strange structure, what does this mean and what is your source?

Three people alone on this single thread believe it without any of my evidence, its not propaganda.

Tampa and Buffalo are apples and oranges as much as you try and bundle the two. Its a ridiculous effort to do so, but keep trying to make the point.

When the Feds say he was the leader from 06-16 of the family what was he the leader of Nicky?

Tampa has two surviving members of a family while Buffalo has over 40, do the math and stop comparing the two. Thats the only propaganda here.

Tampa, Scranton, and San Jose are like Buffalo current day? Youre clearly lost

You still havent answered my questions either Nicky, if you go back a few posts you will see what they were.

Here is a post from Hollander on a different thread pertaining to the Violi's

Contraband Tobacco: Part of the profits went to the Violi clan

if they are part of Buffalo's Canadian crew they seem to be very active

http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/j...s-profits-serait-allee-au-clan-violi.php

My theory is that Buffalo was probably ready to flat line like some other families.
And the L.E. wrote them off

Not realizing that :

1) They were much much bigger and stronger in their day then say a C.A. family.
2) Under estimating the potential in the Canada crew. To possibly step up and lead.

Even with them taking a HUGE hit going down from say 100 active guys to 30
They still can be viable at 30.

With the smaller families at their height they were at 40-50 so now they only have 0-5 members left so other families came in and they became like a crew of a bigger family.

I also think it possible they were lacking leadership after Todaro retired.

I also think that maybe the leadership emerged from the Canada crew.

Maybe they revived the family however, the power has shifted to Canada

Maybe until Canada stepped up the remnants were working with other families
however, that has now changed.

So that is my theory
It is speculation

However, it would make both Nicky and Rooster, Giacomo and Nickel Correct.

1) Nicky was right that there has not been anything verified in the news you cannot deny that,
2) Nicky was right that L.E. and other sources declared them dead.

3) Rooster, Giacomo and Nickel that are from the area are telling the truth about what they are seeing and hearing basically LCN guys doing LCN things regularly

4) The new indictment and arrests point to possibly a re-emergence of the family.

Again, not what they were at their height in membership and power also not completely dead, appears they are active and rebuilding at the moment.

What do you say guys
???????