I agree the papers are nt 100%
But they will more than likely het you in the ball park.

That was part of my point if anytji g they tend to play things up not down play them.

If you are Italian and had a relative that was O.C. 50 years ago
They will say you have O.C. connections becaus that is a better story.

They never down play it.

So basically you are saying that you believe that Buffalo LCN family is running around town with a blank check.
They are doing whatever they want to whoever they want and have no fear of getting caught?

You don't think every family wouldn't be setting up shop to take advantage
Think about what your saying...

They are the only family to have no arrests and no rats for 15 years.
Because the FBI the State police the D.A.'s office are all on the take?

Does that sound right to you?

So you're trying to call me out on writing long posts? How does that help your argument in any way? How is writing long posts a bad thing? What a useless thing to post...


So this is what your argument is now? Calling me out for saying someone can be the boss of a defunct family? You've ignored my numerous explanations for saying what I said about LoScalzo. You've ignored the fact that the very same thing happened with D'Elia. Go back and actually read what I said, instead of ignoring it and purposely taking what I said out of context. Because that is exactly what you're doing.

Anyways, you sound like a broken record at this point. I guess you have nothing more to say than to nitpick and take one old comment in this thread purposely out of context. NickleCity is actually taking the time to put some thought and research into his posts, so maybe you should move over and let the big boys talk...

My sentiments exactly Bensonhurst. No matter how good a family is at securing itself, there is always going to be one junkie that rats out his seller, who (after facing 10+ years), might rat out a soldier or associate he's under, or at least become a paid informant. That's just one example.There's got to be tons of paid informers in the mob at the moment. Look at FBI records, it's always "CI advises this" and "CI advises that." A guy can be a paid informer all his life and nobody will know until he's died and the feds decide to use some of his old information in a case. Hell, the Colombos almost had a paid informer as their boss. Greg Scarpa Sr. got pretty close to taking power of the entire family, until catching AIDS from a blood transfusion gone wrong. Scarpa was a guy who became a paid informer long before Joe Valachi was ever on the scene. Scarpa was young, facing a few years on a burglary count, decided to drop the FBI some dimes every now and then for cash and legal help.
In fact, if you want a Buffalo example, look at Ron Fino. The guy was a paid informer since college.

In Detroit you still have busts in which law enforcement explicitly states a mob connection. Tommy Mackey in the last couple of years. The D'Anna Bros. in 2013. Busts are few and far between, but definitely still there. And law enforcement knows there is still a mafia there, and has explicitly said so. NickleCity has stated that the feds could be covering up the existence of the mafia in hope that they get sloppy, but I believe that to be an extreme stretch of the imagination which is unheard of in recent history.

With the Ciminelli bust, it wasn't just the feds following a paper trail and coming to conclusions based on financial irregularities. That was part of it, but there was actually an undercover informer involved in the case, who was taking bribes. This guy never, ever mentioned a mob connection. And he is the one guy that would KNOW of a mob connection. He's got no reason to hide that. Mob rats only hide stuff if they think it'll get them in even more trouble with the law, like how Tommy McLaughlin wouldn't give too many details on a home invasion-murder because he was the triggerman, and the feds didn't know that.


You are right on the second two points, but in the first point all we know is that members of the Todaro crime family have been arrested someplace in Canada as part of last year's Bonanno bust. However, none of these Todaro crime family members (there can only have been a few guys arrested since 9 in total were busted and we already know some of their names), have been charged with racketeering, or Canada's equivalent of it. So there's no confirming that they did what they did as part of an actual criminal enterprise, i.e. the Todaro crime family or the Musitano crime family or the Bonanno crime family. They were only arrested for drug trafficking.

[/quote]


Thanks Bensonhurst. You have summed up my points exactly.
Todaro's pizza company makes millions of dollars, and exports food all the way to Europe and China. He is at the place every day, full time. I think there is no doubt in anyone's mind he is fully retired by now, and has been for AT LEAST 10 years.

Will respond to the rest later.

Magaddino was not one of the original Commission members just so that there would be a tie breaker. I believe that the families that had 100 members or more when the families were formed were Bonanno, Gagliano, Luciano, Mangano, Profaci, Chicago, Buffalo and Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh was still unstable after the formation, and members of that family transferred to other families, Italy and Sicily. That instability made them be passed over. Plus Magaddino had strong connections and access to Canada and had upper and west New York under his control.

@ Nicky, amazing how much of what you respond with is your own speculation with no proof. How do you now its not the same Capitano and that he wasnt a leader in his 20's, just trust you?

How do you know who took over what in Canada?

Now because Fino says it was active your questioning if he knew when before you were taking his word that the union was cleaned up?

Youre interjecting with your own thoughts and opinions in many, many of your responses now and simply using sweeping statements to attempt to corroborate what you think in articles to be the absolute truth.

I gotta get off this thread, Ive said my peace on the subject and time will tell.

Lastly, tell us personally if you have had any communication with anyone in Buffalo that may know about current Family status? You havent. Until a current member flips and says that it doesnt exist, it still does.

Again, again, again, lets wait and see what the Violi trial brings and lets see if there is any superceding arrests soon

Literally everything you have said in this thread is your own speculation. From Buffalo being active, from guys being made, from the drug route to Canada.


You think the Musitanos executed the Papalia clan for fun? To the victor goes the spoils.


Fino doesn't say the Buffalo mob is active. He just says the unions didn't go far enough. There is a huge difference. Stop intentionally misleading people. What are you trying to gain by saying such obviously wrong stuff? "Fino says it was active" get outta here.



When I have an opinion, I clearly say "in my opinion." Whereas you claim it's been proven that the Buffalo mob is active, which it hasn't, and don't understand that just because you say something is so (with no proof) doesn't make it so. You don't seem to understand that people are smart enough not to believe a random internet poster after LE, prosecutors, etc. have called him wrong.


Phew.


Actually yes I have. I talked to James P. Kennedy, Jr. yesterday, and asked him the state of the Buffalo mob. These were his words:
"The Buffalo mob? Jesus Christ almighty, that thing hasn't been around for 15 years. We managed to take back the unions, and although some say the cleanup didn't quite go far enough, by 2006 we were certain the mob had no sort of foothold there whatsoever. Up in Canada their faction up there was taken out by some rival Canadian mob groups. Musitano, I think his name was. Whatever was left of Buffalo at that point was decimated by our task forces."

What do you have to say to that Rooster...

This is NickleCity: I called the FBI field office in WNY and asked about the Todaro Crime Family arrests in Canada... Quickly and curtly I was told, "We are not allowed to comment on that."

Nicky did you ask why the US Attorney's office from Eastern, NY used the term Todaro Crime Family in the press release from November 2017?

Yea you talked to James P. Kennedy, and Im Maggadinos ghost from Christmas Past

Nicky, Rooster isn't speculating about Capitano. Truly! Did you read the Washington Post Article I posted?

Sam and Peter Capitano were both suspended from the union for a year and prohibited from holding leadership positions again for 5 years after the suspension. Here is a the relevant section of the Washington Post Article:



From the Michael Bebee Buffalo News 1999:


By the way, Peter Capitano, Jr. started working for Local 210 in 1983. He had already been employed by the union for 14 by 1999. Plenty of time to be a strong associate for Joe Todaro, JR.

Nicky, it is evident you are making assumptions without all the facts as well. That is OK, because this is complicated stuff. It takes a long time to wrap your mind around the details and figure out who is who.

I just heard from my friends in St. Pete that Pluto is the boss of the Tampa Crime Family ever since Localzo stepped down in 06-07, I can assure you of that.

@ Nicky, how do you know that Todaro is at La Nova every day full time?

@ Nicky, when you post, you dont say "in my opinion". You say things that are made up, as Nickel City just called you out on. And now you are speculating on a bulk of your recent posts when you tell everyone else they are speculating. What YOU dont realize is that when you call the kettle black people tend to see that you contradict yourself and the principles in which you are trying to prove your arguments with.

@ Nicky, do you believe that the Tampa Family went defunct in 2006-07 or earlier?

@ Nicky, also please, for the sake of all of us on this forum, explain who defines that there can actually be a Boss of a defunct family? Meaning who told you that Loscalzo (or Delia) is the Boss of the now defunct Tampa family and not the ex boss of the defunct family? Who has told you that this is the correct terminology?

i belive( here theyh come to snuff the rooster yayhaya we aint die) name that song) theres still mob presense in all northeast citiies cutt off line pittsburg.

i mean after pittsburg

I think Nicky ghosted us, its been 15 hours.

What constitutes ghosting on this forum Nicky? Is it you? Im just asking so we all know

Alice in Chains, great band in their day

east of it. who the fuck nows whats goiing on in upstate. the feds kinda said violi in hamilton is either the underboss there and hes controls all of cananda. he should have stayed out of the fentanyl trafficking that shit is like the most un hornorable crime you can commit . give us some of that reall french conection herion . not some shit made in a chiniese lab then die on impact. really if the underboss of your family is selling fentanyl your extint. but he killed all the rizzutos who were dope guys . i cant call it. no wonder the hells angels said step aside were taking over up there. should have stuck to the bc bud till the wheels fell off.

@ Nickel City

Do you believe that all those Canadian guys coming up to Bifulco at the funeral clearly identifies him as a leader?

Thats actually a real good point pmac

rooster say what ya want when ya want.

You get in trouble if you claim to know things that law enforcement doesnt know on here

@ Nicky....the "Big Boys" were talking about this topic 2 years ago while you werent even around.

???
This conversation went in a different direction.

Anyway, Ron Fino, was talking about Peter Capitano Jr not Sr.

NickleCity, that sounds like the feds have an on going investigation.

What about this scenario?

They were dead for a while, the feds did shut them down for a while.

However, after such when they had the opportunity they re-grouped.

Maybe they started low key in Buffalo and they were in on the Rizzuto hits, they s
ended up re-connecting with Canada LCN and the Bonanno's again.....

They were dead and came back to life.

After the Colombo war in the mid 90's alot of the Orena faction never came back into the fold.

The faction was independent for about 10 years

In 2010 when Mush Russo took over as act I g boss he started calling guys from the faction in and threatening.

My point is a new old school boss took the reins and deceided he wanted to put the family back together again

Maybe
?

Then both sides would be correct

Jesus Christ, Rooster, can you not see the irony here? No, I didn't talk to the Buffalo DA. I wanted to see your response, and boy I'm glad I did.


Here's my response to that:
"You guys are delusional."
You see, the basis of your argument is uncorroborated talks that you claim to have had with cops in bars. I've called you out in that, punched holes in your story, and you've called me delusional, full of crap, etc. You state your uncorroborated knowledge as fact, and do not differentiate between street talk and known fact. You've certainly fooled me a few times because you put things so bluntly and factually, but when I actually research it, it turns out there's nothing that backs that up/
Now, here I am turning the tables. I claim to have spoken to an LE official, and you say I'm bullshit. How ironic is that? You have claimed to have spoken to LE officials for this entire thread. Now, I claim to have spoken to an LE official and you call me bullshit.


Their father

That means Peter got his membership for the Local at age 16. When he was 22, Fino went into hiding. That seems extremely odd to me that Peter was such a close associate of the boss of a major crime family when he was still growing hair on his balls.
And how would Fino know anything about Sam Capitano? Was Sam running the Pizza gang at his high school? Sam was 18 when Fino went into hiding.

If I really am wrong on this, then I apologize in advance. Nickle, I believe you to be more well-versed on the subject than I am. But how does that add up?
I am making assumptions on this, and I have never claimed to not be doing so.


But please, tell me more about how nobody called it the Todaro crime family before 2017.
I would expect people to tear me apart for what I said about talking to the FBI director. But for you to try and tear me apart his hilarious and shows you lack any sort of self-awareness, Rooster a.k.a. "I claim to talk to beat cops and they say basically the opposite of any and all high-ranking LE officials."


What the fuck does it matter about the actual terminology? I mean really... is this all you have on me? Is this all you can call me out on? A person can be the boss in name alone. Research Billy D'Elia. Seriously. He was indicted as the boss of a family regarded as defunct. What about when Joseph Gagliano was indicted in 2014? You're not gonna start saying that New Orleans is still an active family, are you?
Did Vincent LoScalzo ever have a formal "I'm stepping down" ceremony? Did anyone ever take over from him? The media called him the "kingpin of no kingdom." I.e. the boss of no family. For a guy who claims to know about West New York, you don't even know about D'Elia?
It's really, really pathetic that you hold on to that one comment of mine with such pride. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that you are right on this whole terminology bullshit. What does that prove? That I misspoke on the correct terminology? Wow. I guess that means you're right. Move over FBI agents, federal prosecutors, DAs, Ron Fino, Lee Coppola, Scott Deitche, Mike Hudson, Dan Herbeck. Some rando internet poster has you all proven wrong. You know how? Because Cohen was indicted. Yup, that's right. That constitutes a Buffalo bust somehow, because a Lucchese crime family associate living in Buffalo is apparently a Buffalo crime family associate. A man who was acting solely on behalf of the Luccheses (and was indicted as such) is somehow a Buffalo associate. Because my beat cop buddies tell me so. Maybe these beat cops should quit spouting off to random guys at the bar and start making some actual busts. I mean, any bust whatsoever that even HINTS of Buffalo mob ties would be good enough for me. Because the Cohen bust doesn't count for reasons I outlined earlier. The Ciminelli bust doesn't count for reasons I outlined earlier. And the bust where you alleged two Rochester soldiers were indicted for guns and drugs doesn't count... you know why? Because you pulled that bust out of your ass.

So yeah, let's keep discussing what happens to the boss of a family once his family becomes defunct, and what the terminology is around it. Because that's apparently a more exciting topic to you than the actual questions I outlined (questions which should be simple to answer if you actually have these so-called sources."


Good stuff pmac. You're a blessing to the forum s/.


They said he's the underboss there? When? Give me a link please.

Good thing the feds never, ever called him the underboss of the Todaro crime family. They didn't allude to it. They didn't "basically" say it.


Wait a minute... Wait just one minute... Didn't you say your sources come from beat cops? That's law enforcement buddy...
So you haven't claimed to know things that law enforcement doesn't know. You've claimed that law enforcement DOES know these things, and they're telling you about it. But somehow they deny it to the press.



That's an interesting point Bensonhurst. However I don't think it applies here, because the Orena faction wasn't entirely independent for 10 years. Many were brought back into the fold very quickly. It was those that refused to accept the Persicos that were left out. Guys like Sal Profaci. Guys like the Colombo Brothers. Ralph Scopo Jr. maybe. But guys like Joe Baudanza were very quickly brought back into the fold because they pledged allegiance to the Persicos very quickly. Baudanza was made capo or higher. It was a handful of guys that were left out of the fold, and they trickled back in over time. Ralph Scopo Jr. was one of the last ones but he was making a killing on his own with the coffee boy unions.

http://www.niagarafallsreporter.com/Stories/2013/Jan8/TodaroNicoletti.html

Explain the inaccuracies in this article Nicky, supposedly a well respected reporter