Tampa is still active but only has less then ten made members and 30 to 50 associates. It operates as a crew rather then a family.

I may not agree with everything there, but I will say your answer is a lot more sensible than Rooster's in my opinion.

What about the questions I asked shortly before? They were directed at Rooster but since he's gone quiet maybe you can shed some light.

Nick

I didn't say that backed up his claim about Buffalo being a family

In my opinion.

I was saying that for him to know what he knows he would have had to either:

1) Be a part of it.
2) Be around it
3) Know someone that was and is telling him all these details.

How else could he go into that much detail.

I am verifying that what he is describing about the young crew how the act etc, sounds feasible
Based on my personal experiences

I do not see how he could just pull those details out of the thin air.

That's all I was saying

To me it seems like all 3 of you guys know so much

There were almost no details at all to the post in question. All Rooster said is that wannabe wiseguys like to hang around Anthony Todaro. No details other than that, apart from vague references into typical mob crimes they commit.

I don't think there are any made guys in Tampa under 65. Don't think they operate as a crew with a capo/boss. Whatever was left hooked up with the Gambinos in the late 90s/early 00s.

You know what I cant even find the post
I thought he went into more detail then that
Something about younger guys are fighting for his friendship etc
That they are like a whole crew

As I go back and read older posts seems a bunch of other posters besides you were really getting on these two guys

I didn't know that when I first started here

I kinda jumped in and thought maybe you were not seeing their side of things and was just trying to maybe have you look at it from a "WHAT IF" scenario.

Your not even saying anything is Bull-S--t
You are saying its NOT verified

Time will tell

If these guys are right and all they say that is going on is going on it will eventually come out
Even if the Feds do not know about today

They will very shortly and some indictments will be coming out of there eventually.

Just because something or someone is off the radar today
Does not mean they will always be off

This back and forth shit can go on forever

I think it might be time to agree to disagree and just move on.

Yeah, I'm trying not to accuse anyone of being liars, but I don't like the fact that Rooster puts things very bluntly and states everything as if it is a fact. E.g. he'll say some guy has some rackets going, I'll say there is no proof, no he doesn't, it's not possible, etc., etc., and he'll just respond with "yes he does." If he really has sources telling him about this sort of stuff, then congratulations - I have no way of knowing if he does or not. But, if what he's saying is true, he can respond to the questions I asked on Page 8 of this thread. Some of these are questions I've been asking throughout the length of this thread. If he knows what he knows, surely he can answer them.

EDIT: Giacomo and Rooster aren't really a united front. Not that it helps my argument in any way, but it shouldn't be phrased as a "Nicky v. Rooster & Giacomo" scenario, since the two are also disagreeing on some things.

LOL noted

Quick Question from a previous post

If you are not from around my way
How do you know what you know about all these guys from Brooklyn?

I don't think all those details are in books anywhere?

Just curious I mean you were 98% correct

Joey Caves from BPB
Tommy Mclaughlin from KHB-West
Lil Dino Saricino 20th ave
Robert Arena BPB

Is there a chart somewhere

There seems to be a chart for everything
LOL

Don't think there are charts for these street gangs. Most of these guys have to recount their lives of crime after they flip if they're testifying at trial. Defense lawyers like to give them run-of-the-mill questions to show the jury what career criminals, cheats, liars and pieces of shit they are.

The feds have actually used the Todaro crime family to describe the Buffalo mob since 1989.
http://buffalonews.com/1989/07/26/t...ily-reputedly-spins-a-wide-web-of-crime/

Third question- I am saying 2012/2013 by Falzone, with New York (Manhattan and Brooklyn) supporting it.

Todaro name actually popped up before the feds used it, by Buffalo PD, and Erie Sheriffs department I think around 1987.

Todaro name actually popped up before the feds used it, by Buffalo PD, and Erie Sheriffs department I think around 1987. [/quote]

Appreciate the response, although I can't say I buy it. Don't take that the wrong way but I'm an evidence-based man.
What do you mean "Manhattan and Brooklyn" supporting it? Care to elaborate?

Im still here guys, Nicky is really trying his hardest.

One can only write the same thing over and over and over.

Nicky gets mad when other people dont agree with him and simultaneously poke holes in his story. My evidence is based on word of mouth nothing more. I do not have affidavits from members or DAs or journalists recanting what they said or wrote 10 years ago.

Nicky wants us to believe that Localzo is still the boss of Tampa though, right

The author of Thomas Hunt emailed me a copy of his book "The first Crime Family I Buffalo"
It covers up to 2012

Alot of details about Todaro
Says Piere went to get commission approval for him to take over as official boss

Todaro ended up getting it

They rip apart that Fino basically he was like Walt Disney making up stories his own brother said he was full of it.

Sorry on my phone again

I can send it if anyone who was wants a copy
I personally didn't realize Buffalo was that big of a deal back in the day

They were just about as big as most of the 5 families.

I'm writing the same things over and over because you refuse to answer my questions. I'm not just blatantly disagreeing, there are some serious plot holes with your story that you haven't addressed. If your story is legit, it shouldn't be that difficult at all. Talk to your city cops, I'm sure they can shed some light. I'll post them again in case your confused, so you've got no excuses to keep denying them. If you've answered any of my questions, show me where you've answered them. And no, saying "You don't know how things work in Buffalo" is not a valid answer.

Here are the questions:
First question: Which busts were in 2005, 2010, and 2012?
For a 2010 bust, you cited the arrest of a former associate, Cohen, although there is simply zero evidence that the crimes committed were connected to any sort of OC or the Buffalo mafia.
Second question: What evidence do you have that Local 210 and Local 91 are still mobbed-up? You claimed that the union was never cleaned up fully cleaned up, but there is no evidence of that other than Ron Fino (who flipped in 1989) saying that the feds could have done more in terms of union control.
Third queston: I haven't asked this before, but you said James Feliciano was made in 2000, but he was indicted in Feb. 2000? Also, during that time, he lived in Brooklyn.
Fourth question: You said:
"Members are still under surveillance by BPD and NYS Police, Im not sure about the Feds but they are thought to be viable per local and state law enforecement's definition."
Why have numerous law enforcement officials (I have listed many) denied that the Buffalo mafia exists. They have no reason to do so and it could only hurt any future cases for them if they're lying. By the way, this includes Buffalo federal prosecutor Lee Coppola, Erie County DA Frank J. Clark and Buffalo FBI agent Andrew Goralski. You are saying that LE are conducting surveillance on mobsters. I have given you clear evidence that LE does not consider these guys to be still active.
Also, if LE are conducting surveillance on these guys (which it's clear they're not), why have there been no busts in over 15 years? This can't be compared to Chicago or Detroit, since there is usually a bust every few years for those families (more so for Chicago, less so for Detroit). Usually investigations are finished in less than five years, when a case is made. It's extremely rare a mob investigation lasts over a decade. Since you are claiming "LE is keeping tabs on these guys" we can assume there's multiple investigations. Yet no cases.
By the way, your initial answer to this question above was "You know nothing about Buffalo or know anyone from here" - True, but it's common knowledge that LE don't follow people and watch people for 15+ years without making a bust...
Fifth question:
You said that the existence of the mob in Buffalo is not a secret, and people know what they do. Then why would the area's two leading news stations consistently report, complete with backed up sources, that the family is defunct. Why would acclaimed mob experts and journalists be trying to cover up the existence of this family?
Sixth question:
You said that the articles I posted could be easily misinterpreted. How in the hell do you misinterpret: "The Mafia is all but dead in Western New York. So what killed it?" with comments in the article such as ""“Most of the men who were responsible for the mob murders in Buffalo are dead,” he said. “The hit men who committed the murders are dead." "And no young people have emerged to replace them, Coppola said."" and """Today, both Cohen and Coppola estimate that there are no more than a handful of surviving mob members in the area, with no viable organization to unite them, and no leader."""
There is no ambiguity in these statements and no room for misinterpretation. These articles I posted explicitly state the Mafia is dead in Buffalo and Western NY.
Seventh question:
You noted that "Cops here are friends with members, are involved in crime themselves and corrupt prone, just like everywhere else." It seems you are implying that corruption is a big factor in why these alleged mobsters aren't getting busted "just like everywhere else." Except "everywhere else" where there is an active mafia family or criminal enterprise, there are busts. If you are implying that corruption in Buffalo is so prevalent that busts are impossible, that is a wild statement. Of course, if you are implying something different then I apologise for the confusion. Any insight?


Also, in this initial post, I offered some rebuttals to your statements which you haven't responded to either.

Nickyfromtampa is no joke!

I've explained this to you twice before. Should I dumb it down even more?

Well, you see, when a family stops operating, the members don't go through an un-making ceremony to mark their retirement from OC. They don't say "Hey, we're done with this, let's all get together and relinquish our ranks officially." You still with me? So, there is no official point where Vincent LoScalzo stopped being boss. He does not necessarily "step down." He does not say "Hey fellas, I'm retiring, who wants to take over?" Because, eventually, the last person stops kicking up tribute to him. According to the FBI, for clarity purposes, he is still "the boss." Although the family of which he is the boss of, is no longer active. He is not, at this point, a "soldier." His last known title was "boss."

If a tree dies, and all the leaves fall off, the tree is still called a tree, although it's life processes are no longer working. It's no longer collecting sunlight, it's roots are no longer working. But it's still a tree.

How do we know the FBI follows this logic? Because, when Billy D'Elia of the Bufalino crime family was indicted in 2006, the feds confirmed that the Bufalino crime family was no longer active. But, Billy D'Elia was still referred to as the official boss of the Bufalino crime family. Because even though he was no longer collecting tribute, or commanding over a crime family, he was still (in name alone) the boss. Trees don't stop being trees when they stop collecting sunlight, or collecting water, or growing. They simply become 'dead' trees. In this case, the Bufalino crime family was a 'dead' family, but it's boss was still designated the boss.

I hope you understood that. Clearly my other two explanations were a little bit too complicated for you. Please, if you have any queries about this scenario, or what happens to trees when they die, let me know.

This might be a good time to agree to disagree
And move on
????

There's some fundamental questions that I'd like Rooster to answer first.

If he answers those questions, and he plugs the gaping holes in his story, then we can disagree and move on. If he is telling the 100% truth, then these questions shouldn't be hard. Rooster is quick to call people delusional for not believing him, but slow to respond to actual, logical questions about his baseless tale of mob activity in Buffalo. And, when he's especially stumped on questions, he resorts to commenting about how mad I'm getting, whilst at the same time dodging the questions even more.

Not only is Rooster failing to gape these holes, he's also been caught out on a few lies along the way. Such as how he claimed "the FBI and RCMP acknowledging its structure after the huge bust" when not only did the FBI and RCMP NOT acknowledge the family's structure, they also didn't even specify who in Canada was arrested as a Todaro crime family member. He also claimed "2 reputed younger soldiers from Rochester got caught with drugs and guns in Ithaca. It was online at one point" even though such a bust never happened and was never online. He also claimed that, until 2017, the FBI had never used the term "Todaro crime family" even though I provided a link from 1989 which calls the family by that name.

Appreciate the response, although I can't say I buy it. Don't take that the wrong way but I'm an evidence-based man.
What do you mean "Manhattan and Brooklyn" supporting it? Care to elaborate?[/quote]

He has some great connections with New York.

He has some great connections with New York.

[/quote]

Yes but what do you mean "Manhattan and Brooklyn" supporting him? Do you mean the the Five Families' Manhattan and Brooklyn crews supported him? And not Queens, Bronx, SI and elsewhere? Just trying to get a better understanding of what you're trying to say.

Rooster, you still here? These plot holes aren't gonna plug themselves.

Capos in the Bonanno and Genovese crime families.

There is a Ny times article during the commission trial they played tapes talking about the Buffalo family someone was mad Todaro was gonna be boss and Fat Tony said the commission is gonna deal with it tell them your dealing with the big boys etc etc. junior Persico personally supported the anti todaro faction

WhackWhack, that was in 1984 when Joe Pieri from Buffalo and John Tronolone from Cleveland went to see Fat Tony. Persico tapped Joe Pieri to be boss through Donnie Shacks, with support from Tony Ducks. The real issue was Joe Todaro Jr. Running around with submachine guns when Big Paul issued the no violence policy through Giacomo Luppino, during the selection process of Buffalo Boss. Fat Tony felt that Persico was pushing Buffalo to war and was cooling the Snakes engine's. Big Paul and The Chin decided on Todaro Sr. Becoming boss. Fat Tony reminded Joe Pieri to inform the factions of Buffalo Pieri/Todaro that the Commission will decide. Interestingly, Joe Todaro Sr. decided to spend some vacation time in New York City after that meeting.

The exact quote:
"Tell him the Commission from New York - tell him he's dealing with the big boys now," - Fat Tony Salerno.
"I'll send word to Junior to straighten this thing out. I'll get a hold of Junior," said Salerno, who added authoritatively: "The Commission wants it straightened out."


You're still being quite vague, Giacomo. Please provide some more details. Who, in particular, supported the leadership change in Buffalo (which, by the way, I still don't believe)?

Vinny TV? Nicky Santora? Joe C? Joe Desi? Little Anthony? Patty Boy Falcetti? Figgy? Conrad? Baldy? Danny Pagano? Tico?

Also, if you don't mind me asking, how did you get this information. An LE source or an underworld source? How open was this leadership thing in NY?

Leadership chance? I was talking about Falciano. Joe Saunders name popped up. This is from reliable sources.

Now if you are talking about Buffalo 1984, well Sam the Farmer told the Commission in 1983 that he was retiring in the next year or two, and would name a successor. He felt Buffalo would not have a repeat of 1974, and the Commission stay out of it. Big Paul took steps through Luppino for a peaceful transition. The root really stemmed from Todaro and Pieri kids, with Carmine wanting a strong ally in Buffalo. Persico was bringing tension to Buffalo. Eventually Big Paul and the chin backed up Sam the Farmer pick, Joe Todaro Sn.