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Re: Did anyone else notice that .......
[Re: olivant]
#824832
01/20/15 08:25 AM
01/20/15 08:25 AM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 22,902 New York
SC
Consigliere
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Consigliere
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Posts: 22,902
New York
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Then there's Luca's murder. It's December; it gets dark about 6PM. Vito's about to go to his car to be driven home. However, simultaneously, Luca is visitng Sollozzo at either the Tattaglia club or a hotel bar (which it looks like). The windows to the club or bar are on a hallway through which any number of people could pass and view a murder. Doesn't make sense. Actually, it gets dark in NYC about 4:30 p.m. at that time of year. I was under the impression that Luca met with Sollozzo the night before the attempt on Vito. Late at night.
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Re: Did anyone else notice that .......
[Re: SC]
#824844
01/20/15 09:44 AM
01/20/15 09:44 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,029 Texas
olivant
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,029
Texas
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Actually, it gets dark in NYC about 4:30 p.m. at that time of year.
I was under the impression that Luca met with Sollozzo the night before the attempt on Vito. Late at night.
The novel lays it out that way. However, in the film, the scenes are interwoven and Fredo getting the car and Vito getting shot bookend Luca's murder. My comment about it getting dark was meant to emphasize that a club or bar would be getting busy about that time.
"Generosity. That was my first mistake." "Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us." "Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
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Re: Did anyone else notice that .......
[Re: olivant]
#824845
01/20/15 09:50 AM
01/20/15 09:50 AM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 22,902 New York
SC
Consigliere
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Consigliere
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The novel lays it out that way. However, in the film, the scenes are interwoven and Fredo getting the car and Vito getting shot bookend Luca's murder. Doesn't mean that it happened at the same time. Part II had (flashback) scenes interwoven with those of what was supposed to be current.
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Re: Did anyone else notice that .......
[Re: SC]
#824882
01/20/15 02:20 PM
01/20/15 02:20 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,029 Texas
olivant
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,029
Texas
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Doesn't mean that it happened at the same time. Part II had (flashback) scenes interwoven with those of what was supposed to be current.
The flashback scene in II was intended to be a flashback scene and to be recognized by viewers as a flashback scene.
Last edited by olivant; 01/20/15 02:21 PM.
"Generosity. That was my first mistake." "Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us." "Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
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Re: Did anyone else notice that .......
[Re: The Last Woltz]
#827930
02/09/15 09:27 PM
02/09/15 09:27 PM
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 177 Westchester
Frankie_Five_Angels
OP
Made Member
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Made Member
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Westchester
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...also just realized that Willi Cicci is one of Sonny's bodyguards when he beats up Carlo... (I thought he was originally with Clemenza???) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OEhiTHJ0EA...and Genco (Frank Sivero)is a bystander in the same scene. lol
"I'll give you undignified. Go fuck yourself. You, Phil... whoever. He's my fuckin' cousin."
"My name is George. I'm unemployed and live with my parents"..
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Re: Did anyone else notice that .......
[Re: Frankie_Five_Angels]
#827931
02/09/15 09:35 PM
02/09/15 09:35 PM
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 177 Westchester
Frankie_Five_Angels
OP
Made Member
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... scene where I believe the dead hooker is still breathing... at about 17-18.5 seconds. If you can't notice it here, I don't know what to tell you... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSxXiHRZTOY
"I'll give you undignified. Go fuck yourself. You, Phil... whoever. He's my fuckin' cousin."
"My name is George. I'm unemployed and live with my parents"..
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Re: Did anyone else notice that .......
[Re: Turnbull]
#830507
02/26/15 11:02 AM
02/26/15 11:02 AM
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 177 Westchester
Frankie_Five_Angels
OP
Made Member
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OP
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FFC was definitely letting you know that Michael had been changed after Apollonias death. Even when he tells Kay he loves her... he's says it matter of factly..
"I'll give you undignified. Go fuck yourself. You, Phil... whoever. He's my fuckin' cousin."
"My name is George. I'm unemployed and live with my parents"..
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Re: Did anyone else notice that .......
[Re: olivant]
#830598
02/26/15 07:33 PM
02/26/15 07:33 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,624 AZ
Turnbull
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,624
AZ
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Exactly. That's why I think that many Board members have it wrong when they cite Michael's "I'm with you now" statement to Vito when he was in the hospital. That statement represented Michael's renouncing his estrangement from his father (such estrangement is explained in the novel and somewhat also in one of the Saga's scenes). It was not meant by Michael to represent his commitment to his father's crime family and its machinations. As you appear to point out, such commitment was, in large part, a function of Appolonia's murder and Fabrizio's betrayal. I agree with your analysis, Oli. I don't think Michael could have envisioned himself as being an integral part of the family enterprise when he said, "I'm with you now, Pop." And in any event, Sonny was still in charge. Even his decision to whack Sol and Mac was made to protect his father against another attempt on his life (and perhaps in revenge for Mac breaking his jaw, but let's not go there now). By the time of Appolonia's murder, Michael was no longer a "civilian" because of his murder of Mac and Sol, and was a hunted man. And, Sonny had been killed. Arguably, his decision to become the Don-in-waiting was taken because there were few if any other options available to him after that point.
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu, E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu... E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
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Re: Did anyone else notice that .......
[Re: Frankie_Five_Angels]
#830732
02/27/15 10:41 AM
02/27/15 10:41 AM
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 66
DonJon
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Re: Did anyone else notice that .......
[Re: Turnbull]
#835478
03/31/15 11:16 AM
03/31/15 11:16 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468 With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso
Consigliere to the Stars
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Consigliere to the Stars
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
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Exactly. That's why I think that many Board members have it wrong when they cite Michael's "I'm with you now" statement to Vito when he was in the hospital. That statement represented Michael's renouncing his estrangement from his father (such estrangement is explained in the novel and somewhat also in one of the Saga's scenes). It was not meant by Michael to represent his commitment to his father's crime family and its machinations. As you appear to point out, such commitment was, in large part, a function of Appolonia's murder and Fabrizio's betrayal. I agree with your analysis, Oli. I don't think Michael could have envisioned himself as being an integral part of the family enterprise when he said, "I'm with you now, Pop." And in any event, Sonny was still in charge. Even his decision to whack Sol and Mac was made to protect his father against another attempt on his life (and perhaps in revenge for Mac breaking his jaw, but let's not go there now). By the time of Appolonia's murder, Michael was no longer a "civilian" because of his murder of Mac and Sol, and was a hunted man. And, Sonny had been killed. Arguably, his decision to become the Don-in-waiting was taken because there were few if any other options available to him after that point. I'm not so sure. Michael saw that Sonny was not a good Don when he sat in on the meeting when they brought the dead fish. He planned the break up with Kay, and when he got to the hospital to find no guards there, it confirmed his belief that he was better equiped to take care of Vito than Sonny was. When he tells Vito "I'm with you now" he means it more than metaphorically. I do believe that Michael thought he could be a part of the family business and remain legitimate , a self-delusion that followed him to his death, and I agree the killing of Apollonia cemented his resolve, but after Michael told Vito he was with him, the next things he did were telling. He got Enzo to pretend he was a hit man, he provoked McCluskey, and then he took over the meeting the next day when he literally vetoed Sonny and Tom's plan to "wait."
"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"
"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."
"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."
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Re: Did anyone else notice that .......
[Re: dontomasso]
#835496
03/31/15 12:26 PM
03/31/15 12:26 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,029 Texas
olivant
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,029
Texas
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but after Michael told Vito he was with him, the next things he did were telling. He got Enzo to pretend he was a hit man, he provoked McCluskey, and then he took over the meeting the next day when he literally vetoed Sonny and Tom's plan to "wait." Oh DT, you are soooooo wrong. You are probably more wrong than any Board member has ever been. Ten years ago, would you have been this wrong? With all due respect, you're slippin'. The actions that Michael took regarding Enzo, McCluskey, and the next day's meeting were all to protect Vito; they were not a commitment to the Mafia life.
"Generosity. That was my first mistake." "Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us." "Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
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