I thought it was on record that Shondor Birns set up the loan through Castellano's crew either from directly Paul or somebody else. If not Paul my guess who be Nino Gaggi who primarily loan sharked but that is purely conjecture on Gaggi having anything to do with it.

I'm not sure the exact person who issued the loan was identified past being a high ranking Gambino.

It was also my understanding that it was confirmed Birn's courier. The loan was arranged via Birns as a conduit to New York, I always though Greene had no direct connection with the Gambino's until this occurred as I had understood it.

@ItalianIrishMix I can't see Greene setting up the robbery. He went to Birns as a mentor/friend to set up what he thought would be a night spot similar to Birn's. The way I looked at it Birns was schooling Greene and Greene saw an opportunity to attempt to set up an empire similar to Birns' by starting the same way, with a restaurant/bar. I always thought it was just truly bad luck with the courier and that everything happened as a result of his mistake. It certainly is not assumed on any level Greene asked someone to ask the Gambino family for $75,000 and then colluded with a courier he was likely strangers with to take a coke trafficking charge for him and "lose" the loan in the process. I can't find an angle where that has any logic behind it.

Food for though, $75K is truly not a large sum in that respect, if he were to want that amount, surely it could have been robbed locally from either connected or non-connected lower level operators, certainly one that ranked far lower than the Gambino Family.

@dixiemafia I highly doubt they were setting him up, there was truly no reason to at the time, he was barely a mid level debt collector if we're being honest with his position at the time this all occurred before he grew into what he became as far as stature. Do you have any info or story to back up Greene being set up? Personally I can't see why it would occur, he was doing leg work for Birns at the time, he crew wasn't developed and active on that level yet, he wasn't a threat that would have required a "set-up" that all came later as a direct result of this.

This is why I made this an opinion based thread. Was just looking to gain additional insight as to how people saw this situation in their personal opinion (if any of you have those) as it seems to be a universal question. "Does one still owe on an undelivered loan?"

I can understand the complaint from both sides, via NY they released a loan, that was what they were required to do. Birns fucked up the courier, this was his involvement, and Greene was to repay money upon delivery which never occurred. it's easy to say it was Birns and Cox's fault but I guess my question is regardless of a middle man, the loan was direct to Greene from New York no matter who else as involved. In your personal opinion, does Danny Greene owe regardless because he ordered cash from a loan shark and that shark promptly released the cash? Or did New York have a deeper responsibility to make certain the money they leant got to the person responsible for repaying it?

Tough question IMO, can be argued from either side. Just here seeking opinion, no right or wrong answer the way I see it.