Exactly.

I was not comparing police forces but was comparing the Ndrangheta to the Cosa Nostra.
I am glad you mentioned "it may take more effort". This was the essence of my point.

Hate to say mr just say no was on to something again but i bet they work hand and hand with watever usa born made guy works with them. Probaly the same way john gambino and his crew of zips have been gambino guys since the 70tys. If these guys thought they could do wat they want say in brooklyn all 5 familes crews would rob them blind till they went under protection of a certin crew in bk.

Bored drunk celtics are getting blown the fuck out but there +9.5 so hope for alittle homecooking.

Knicks are gonna trade us porzing and melo for the number 1 pic id do it. Just for porzingis melo were just eating his contract. Him and phil hate each other. Ndrangeta runs the knicks . Never even with wikipedia whats a knick? 5 dollar bag of swag. Goodnight board.

i don't think ndrangheta has the manpower to take any of the 5 ny families, not even the colombo's
if somebody will fill the vacuum are the sicilians, there are by far more sicilian mafiosi in new york and new jersey than ndrangheta members

I feel like you guys still don't exactly understand the clan dynamic, cause y'all are STILL talking about man power and made guys....

These clans are after ECONOMIC power, which translates to military- territorial- and political power, both in the street and with actual politicians. While the Five families have military- political like power, which translates into business opportunities and extortion.

You guys keep talking about the Calabrians " Taking Over" the five families, as if they would cross the ocean to set up a sports book. Cause that's really what you guys are talking about when you say " Take over", gambling rackets, and like MAYBE unions.

You don't NEED to be made, Italian, or from NYC to set up a drug operation, and launder the money. That's what these people are after. What you WOULD need, is customers, stash houses, secure safe places for money drops, pushers to work the streets, indeed, they would need to know WHICH streets are safe to work, in what neighborhoods. Like Sollozo, lol I always use that guy as my example, it was like a cast iron representation of what these guys look like and how they operate. Their entire philosophy kinda reminds me of the famous Rothschild quote, something like, " I care not who makes the laws, as long as I control the money.." Or some shit like that.





It would take the Feds a while to crack the Calabrians. The only reason they had any success here is because they are working hand in glove with the Italian authorities. It was the Italians who tipped the American Feds that the Piromallis had a mole in the FBI. Come on, don't be naive. The average American cop, I don't believe speaks Calabrian dialect, you KNOW you can't really get that close to these people, it's all blood relatives.


These clans can control, like hundreds of people, and yet the actual " Family" will be like 30-40 key people, and they will ALL be related.


I posted this in another thread, but it explains how the Naples gangs, Rizzuto clan, the Calabrian clans, old school cartels like the Ochoas, to new school cartels like Sinaloa, ( RIGHT NOW, Chapos relatives and sons are set to inherit the business, soon as they kill all the rivals, lol) Beltran-Leyva family, it's all about business. They don't have made members so much as salaried employees. It's more corrupt corporation than secret society. And the SHAREHOLDERS, are always the Family. In fact, the society functions solely to concentrate these criminal businesses and contacts in their hands. You don't actually NEED the society for the business.

This is the problem Luciano had to reconcile, he didn't NEED the mafia to import liquor, sell liquor, or invest the proceed from the liquor, or to bribe cops and politicians. When he got deported, same shit, he didn't NEED an army of made guys in Sicily to operate GLOBALLY, in fact Sicily hindered his efforts to expand. He sent his guys, deported Mafiosi EVERYWHERE. His success there was based on CONTACTS, and product, contacts to get the stuff, contacts in the states to receive and move it.

(actually in Mexico the most successful cartels appear to be the ones based on family)

Like this isn't even a MAFIA THING, which is what I feel like you guys try to make it. It's a DRUG ORGANIZATION THING, or more specifically, a COMMODITY based type crime syndicate, be it prohibition liquor, bootleg cigarettes, drugs, gasoline bootlegging, counterfeit cloths, something you hold in your hands. All these organizations are going to look and operate the same, I don't care if they are Latin, Italian, Black, Albanian, whatever.....

This I believe explains a lot why Canada looks how it does right now.....and the Calabrians, and just all the clans that move PRODUCTS in general.....

“Investigations conducted by the Naples anti-Mafia prosecutor reveal that the Camorra’s flexible, federalist structure has completely transformed the fabric of the “families: instead of diplomatic alliances and stable pacts, clans now operate more like business committees.



(THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT, ITS WHY ITS MISLEADING TO COUNT THE NUMBER OF MADE GUYS IN DETERMINING THE STRENGTH OF A CLAN...)





The Camorra’s flexibility reflects its need to move capital, set up and liquidate companies, circulate money, and invest quickly in real estate without geographical restrictions or heavy dependence on political mediation.

(Basically, they don't need 200 made guys jockeying in the same territory, stepping on each other, having sitdowns every five minutes, that shit waste time.)




The clans no longer need to organize in large bodies. These days a group of people can decide to band together, rob, smash store windows, and steal without risking being killed or taken over by the clan. The gangs rampaging around Naples are not composed exclusively of individuals who commit crimes to pad their wallets, buy fancy cars, or live in luxury. They know that by joining forces and increasing the degree and amount of violence, they can often improve their “economic capacity, becoming interlocutors for the clans. The Camorra is made up of groups that suck like voracious lice, hindering all economic development, and others that operate as instant innovators “pushing their businesses to new heights of development and trade”.

La Santa or whatever it's called is a good example of this. Their original code of conduct for the secret society was great if you wanted to tax every business in Calabria. If you wanted to CONTROL CALABRIA. But it proved to be an impediment to bigger business, and interacting with politicians and making the REAL moves. That's why they had to create La Santa. Cause the dope business is BIGGER THAN CALABRIA, bigger than a select secret society, bigger than any one ethnic group, or neighborhood, bigger than any ONE city, or country, or continent for that matter. Same with stuff like oil, ciggarettes, and women. That's why these are the biggest businesses in OC.

Sending coke around the world, revenue wise, probably beats taxing maybe EVERY business in Calabria put together. Now I'm exaggerating, but I suspect, not by much.

Also, I read the Piromallis Argo-food supply business is a 16 billion a year thing, I'm not sure if that includes drug trafficking, but that's a huge number.

Couple months ago in the Tribune.....


http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/sns-bc-eu--italy-mafia-agriculture-20170314-story.html

This makes Cali's interest look small, am I wrong? And in hindsight, he has a LOT in common with a clan like the Piromallis... Right?

And again, the usual suspects, the Piromalli Calabrese, and the Casalesi Napoletans.

Is there an American mafia family that controls an asset worth anywhere close to 16 billion legit?

I know the Genovese control Ponte and his real estate.

Profaci's heirs got a Billion dollar liquor business, but does anyone believe they kick up to the Persicos?

Again, drugs, family clans, food businesses, the Gambino clan looks a LOT like the strongest Calabrian and Naples clans.

I feel like that 16 billion is more powerful than even 500 made guys.


" You understand guns? Finance is a gun, politics, is knowing when to pull the trigger".....

http://bitterqueen.typepad.com/friends_of_ours/neapolitan_mafia/page/101/

Small mention here of an operation to control fruit markets by the three top Italian syndicates.....

Bontate and Inzerillo were economically superior yet were blown to bits by the militarily superior Corleonesi.

In order to hold claim over a territory you have to have the manpower.

I would say politically superior, not militarily. Similar to how Luciano took over.

He was militarily inferior to BOTH Maranzano and Masseria. He won the war cause he was a great mafia Politician and strategist. He, like the Corleonesi built a coalition of disaffected mobsters from across family lines. And like these clans, his strength was in control of a Commodity, liquor. The younger guys knew this was the future so they threw in with him. They knew they would eat well with Lucky in charge. Basically, money made Lucky powerful, not muscle.

That was the real strength of the Corleonesi. The fact that they had multiple guys in every family feeding them info on rivals, and the fact they clandestinely took control of the Cupola. So they always like, had permission for those murders. That's something that was pointed out in a couple book I read on those guys. They always took murder contracts to the Cupola, and they were always sanctioned and " Justified" , because, they behind the scenes already secured the votes from allies. They were very, very cunning. But they only had like, a FIFTEEN MAN death squad headed up by Pino Greco, who is said to have killed well over a hundred people.

See that wasn't so much a war, as a massacre. John Dickes book explains it well;

They took control of the Cupola FIRST, behind the scenes. This woulda never been possible if the other clans were eating with the Palermo families. They were too clannish, lol. Same thing happened in the early sixties with the Palermo Grecos dominating at the expense of the clans from other parts of Sicily. That's why Cavataio played em off against each other, again a lot like Luciano.


So I would say the Corleonesi were politically more astute. They were a small core group, I think there were like 40 or so of em. And something I don't think is widely known, they woulda never got anywhere if it wasn't for Leggio, who I read was FANTASTICALLY WEALTHY, like HE got powerful because of business and money too....

Check this excerpt from last Godfather, it's where I read this

https://books.google.com/books?id=hkDFCi...ney&f=false

I don't think they want to control NYC, so much as establish a safe, secure, mid-transition point for their coke going to Europe. And Launder money, I think Italy is getting hot. The cost of doing business must be going up.

The Coreonesi took out the Palermo families not for territorial control. They took em out for control of the COMMODITY, heroin.

Inzerillo and his clan, if they cut the other families in, they never get killed by that small clan.

These guys, I don't think, are looking to set up shop on NY street corners. They would be competing with entrenched Dominicans anyway, and maybe Mexicans too, AND black gangs like the bloods, like the bust in the Bronx and Buffalo show. Can the American mob offer them an enclave like 60s era Pleaseant Avenue? Or Italian Harlem? I think They just don't trust sending huge 1-3000 kilo loads of coke across the Atalantic with so much heat on.

I really think the relationship is mutually beneficial, there is no pending war here....

Another Sicilian Inzerillo linked clan...

https://gangstersinc.ning.com/profiles/blogs/organized-crime-gangs-invade

Same type of structure, same shit....

Cabrini, good point about millitary vs political. Look at the feud between Bagarella and Provenzano. Leoluca had the desire to became the boss and he had the manpower, Bernardo had no guns but became boss of bosses.

@Calibrigreen

The family Luciano took over was still the largest so it was only logical that he would be the top boss. Maranzano was politically more powerful than Luciano, but he was overcome by greed just like his predecessor. By the time Maranzano was killed everyone was tired of fighting and Luciano made the wise decision to share the profits instead of naming himself capo dei capi and demand tribute by the other bosses.

The 'Corleonesi' is the name given to not only the clan from Corleone but also all their allies. Riina was able to take over because he had shaped secret alliances with people who were working for or with Bontate and Inzerillo. Once they were killed the Corleonesi took over these families. Clearly they were militarily superior because it was a one-sided massacre. The international connections of Bontate and Inzerillo simply transfered over to the Corleonesi because there was too much money at stake at the time.

So in the end, military power outweighs political power.

Indeed, by the time they started the massacre, they already made sure to be the majority: most of the commission members were already Riina's allies and in many families that were not, the underbosses switched to Riina's side, since he promised them the boss position after the boss would be killed. I think Bontate's underboss was Pietro Lo Iacono, and he was in it with Riina to whack Bontate. Same situation with Inzerillo and his underboss Salvatore Montalto (I think that's the name).

By the way, does anyone find curious the fact that, while it's usually defined as an "old mafia vs new mafia" conflict, as the "losing" side families were considered "conservatives" and were historically at the top of the Cosa Nostra, while the "winning" coalition headed by Riina had many leaders coming from small towns and it was their "first taste for power", like Riina and Provenzano themselves. Yet, unlike other similar wars, the "old" mafia main bosses at the time (Inzerillo and Bontate) were 37 and 42 years old when they were whacked, while most of the Riina's main allies were a generation older (Michele Greco, Francesco Madonia, Antoninco Geraci, Bernardo Brusca etc, if we take just the Palermo province for example). Kind of funny imo, that the "traditionalists" were represented by younger gangsters, while the "upcoming", "new" mafia was headed by "grandfathers" who re-discovered their ambitions at that age, while weren't very much heard about when they were younger. Look at Carmelo Colletti who became the Agrigento province boss allied with Riina: he wasn't noticed much until that war, he was just boss of Ribera, and in the 80s when he was over 60, he suddenly went on a crazy rampage, killing everybody in his province like Riina did in Palermo. Usually they act like that when they are relatively young, and calm down at least a little, when growing old. In the "Corleonesi" coalition it was mostly the other way around as it seems. Procopio Di Maggio, who took over Cinisi from Badalamenti and aligned himself with Riina, was considered the oldest prisoner in Italy, as I read in an article. Of all those so-called "old conservative godfathers" opposed to Riina, only Badalamenti could be considered relatively "old" at the time, but he was kicked out of the mafia in 1978 already, later left Italy, and wasn't really in the picture anymore.

@Sonny

I think we mostly agree, but the thing is, MASSERIA had the largest family.
But this didn't translate into MILITARY power. He was badly outfought by Maranzano. That's one of the other main reasons guys were switching to his side.
And Maranzano woulda been top boss, even though his family wasn't the biggest, but because they fought the most ferociously.



The thing about the guys under Masseria, is they weren't REALLY, loyal to him, so much as they operated under his criminal brand, his umbrella. Their loyalty wasn't based on anything that deep. They were BUSINESSMEN. But Maranzanos- Bonnanos guys loyalty is based on shared heritage so to speak. They were all from Castallamare, you could call it a criminal form of nationalism. Maranzano was described as the type of guy comfortable like, sitting in a room for days on end cleaning rifle. Like he might have more in common with a Salvatore Giuliano, Castro, let's go fight a guerilla war from the mountains and hills type of guy. Can you picture Lucky in his suits, or Costello in the Waldorf Astoria winning a war vs these type of people? Same with the Inzerillo people, waaay to classy for a bloodbath, lol...

But he suicided his own power by demanding obedience from too many other powerful gangsters.

Luciano politically outmaneuvered him by correctly judging Maranzanos underboss, Bonnano as someone he could work with. Cause if Bonnano doesn't play ball, he's got to go to war with em again, and they lost in the first place. Same with Manga is under, Anastasia, same with Gagliano, Luchesse and Petrilli, ya know....

All his moves are actually really similar to the Corleonesi. Leccara Frddi is close to Corleone right? Just an observation.....

@Dwallin

That's a great post man, that is very interesting. But I always saw it as a war of the HAVES Vs THE HAVE NOTS lol......

Here's another example, from the Barbaro clan from Grifith. In Australia.

Note that Barbaro says there are 3000 "Mafiosi", but only like, three dozen actually matter, probably ALL relatives too....


http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/ns...4c8de197667b971

I was also thinking: if Maranzano hadn't made such a long list of people to be eliminated, maybe he would have succeeded? Because he put there all those younger "upstarts" who helped him to win against Masseria (starting with Lucky Luciano etc), then also Dutch Schultz and even Al Capone were in the list (correct me please if this isn't reliable information, as I don't remember right at the moment the link to the article that said so). So, with so many people targeted, no wonder at least somebody had a "mole" in Maranzano's ranks and fed the information to his friend, and the "friend" in question told everybody else on the list, making them all temporary allies against a common enemy (Maranzano). The longer the list, the bigger the possibility that at least 1, or 2, or 3 etc of the targets will have a friend among his allies and will leak out the plans to one of the targets, and that one will tell others. What I mean, if Maranzano wanted to kill just 2 or 3 most "charismatic" characters who he feared could try to overthrow him, like for example Luciano, Genovese and Costello, maybe there would be less chance that the plans wouldn't be leaked out and the hits would go down as planned. Instead, by planning a "big purge" aimed to kill so many gangsters at the same time, Maranzano took a very improbable chance to succeed imo...What do you think about the theory, could this be the case?

I think it could be....


Think about it, Maranzano woulda lived if he didn't trust Luchesse. Luchesse was the key mole inside Maranzanos organization for Luciano. I think that was Bonnanos big beef with him. Again a situation where Hes planning military action, but thwarted cause Luciano had him politically outmaneuvered, this like the Corleonesi situation, he won the war before any shots were even fired. It was won in back room deals, and secret meets....

And THIS, was a clear example of, let me start over......

Getting to top, you need MILITARY-POWER, but to rule, you gotta be political.
And I always try to remember, war is just politics by different means.....and finance is a gun, politics is knowing when to pull the trigger....


Read The Art of War to get to the top, read The Prince to stay there......

Keeping track, in New York there is what....

Ursino clan, Aquino-Coluccio, the big boys. But then you got seemingly smaller operations like the Queens pizza thing. I forget who they were connected to in Italy, I gotta look it up.....

Any Commiso sightings in NYC? Or any representatives from the Siderno group?