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Strictly business.... or not? #9082
06/02/04 01:25 PM
06/02/04 01:25 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,183
Nederland
Michael Corleone 14 Offline OP
Underboss
Michael Corleone 14  Offline OP
Underboss
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,183
Nederland
Yesterday, I watched GF for the 1st time in like half a year, and it rose a question. When Michael, Tom, Sonny and Clemenza plan Sollozos killing, Michael says the famous "Its not personal, its strictly business". But, the novel says that Vito taught Michael to regard everything as personal. Did Mike just say it so Sonny would agree with him killing Solozzo and McCluskey, or was it something else?


"I won't be a man like you." - Michael to Vito, orginal Part II ending
Re: Strictly business.... or not? #9083
06/02/04 02:02 PM
06/02/04 02:02 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 513
juventus Offline
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juventus  Offline
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Posts: 513
I think it was (strictly) bussines. There was no other way he could kill Sollozzo. And he believed that SOllozzo would kill his dad, unless Mikey killed Sollozzo first of course.


'This was just another Bronx tale.'
Re: Strictly business.... or not? #9084
06/02/04 02:12 PM
06/02/04 02:12 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 146
Rhode Island
AllAboutTheFamily Offline
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AllAboutTheFamily  Offline
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Posts: 146
Rhode Island
Quote
Originally posted by juventus:
I think it was (strictly) bussines. There was no other way he could kill Sollozzo. And he believed that SOllozzo would kill his dad, unless Mikey killed Sollozzo first of course.
Yeah well thats making it personal.

Micheal killed Solozzo because Solozzo tried to kill his dad-not the don of the Corleone family but his dad. It wasn't strictly business. If it was strictly business, then Micheal would not have killed Solozzo seeing how he was not in the business at the time!


"I'd rather laugh with the sinners then cry with the saints, the sinners are much more fun."-Billy Joel
Re: Strictly business.... or not? #9085
06/02/04 02:16 PM
06/02/04 02:16 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 513
juventus Offline
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juventus  Offline
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yes your right. But with killing his 'dad' they kill the don. And with killing the don they lose much of their political power.
But your right, Mikey didn't care of losing the don but he care of his father.
But i thought killing McCluskey was the point. That was bussines. It wasn't because he smacked Mikey in the face, at least that's what i think.

Killing Sollozzo was personal.
But to do that he needed to kill McCluskey. He killed McCluskey cause he need to, not cause he smacked Mikey in the face. So McCluskey was (half) bussines


'This was just another Bronx tale.'
Re: Strictly business.... or not? #9086
06/02/04 02:25 PM
06/02/04 02:25 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 22,902
New York
SC Offline
Consigliere
SC  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 22,902
New York
Michael was exactly like Vito ---- he took EVERYTHING personal. Don't let all that talk about it being business fool you.


.
Re: Strictly business.... or not? #9087
06/02/04 03:02 PM
06/02/04 03:02 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,724
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

Joined: Oct 2001
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AZ
Michael had another reason for his statement:
At that point in the film, Sonny and the capos were laughing at him, ridiculing his sudden decision to involve himself in the family business "just because a cop socks you on the jaw," as Sonny said. Michael needed to prove that he was thinking of the family business, not his own need for personal revenge against McCluskey for breaking his jaw--or against Sollozzo for trying to kill his father.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Strictly business.... or not? #9088
06/02/04 04:11 PM
06/02/04 04:11 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,183
Nederland
Michael Corleone 14 Offline OP
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Michael Corleone 14  Offline OP
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Thanks for the answer, SC, and thanks for the background info, Turnbull. wink

And, juventus and AllAboutTheFamily, thanks for the effort. tongue


"I won't be a man like you." - Michael to Vito, orginal Part II ending
Re: Strictly business.... or not? #9090
06/02/04 04:56 PM
06/02/04 04:56 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 316
Toronto, Canada
UnderBoss Offline
Capo
UnderBoss  Offline
Capo
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 316
Toronto, Canada
Strictly business... well I would agree that Michael took everything as personal as his father did. I think that both of these killings could be construed as business and as personal.

On a business end, the most superficial layer, the Corleones had to take Solozzo out, he would have tried for Vito again and that would not be good for business at all. Also, it’s just standard policy in the Cosa Nostra that if someone strikes at the leader they are dealt with swift vengeance. McCluskey, the corrupt cop had enough pull, was deep enough in Solozzo's pocket and if it weren't for Michael showing up at the hospital, he would have had a big part in the finishing off of Vito Corleone once and for all. McCluskey posed enough of a threat that it was warranted that he would be taken out, he could have used his power to help Solozzo and his men plan another hit.

Solozzo had to be dealt with, McCluskey was outed because in a limited sense he was Solozzo’s body guard and would have struck back at Michael and had to be dealt with. It can be also thought that McCluskey involving himself in the second assassination attempt on Vito by pulling his officers off guard duty was in a very real way getting himself mixed up in business.

The personal aspect overlaps this too. Solozzo tried to kill his father and McCluskey hit Michael and was responsible for pulling the cops off the duty all personal swipes at the family.

Michael also realized after the hospital incident that his role in this, whether he liked it or not he was more linked to the destiny of the family and his father that he would have liked. He consigned himself to this fate. Part of the choice was this aspect of being sorta forced into the situation, part of it was the business aspect and part of it, I think superceding the business aspect was his personal vendetta.

I think his personal vendetta between Solozzo and McCluskey and the opportunity that presented itself acted as a bridge that allowed Michael to cross from his life as an outsider as he placed himself in into the life of a insider within the family.

Would anybody in his position have acted much differently? I wouldn't, something had to be done to protect his family and his father, so he did the deed and the rest is history.

It should be noted that the word family is very important as well. Although the words "business", "family business", "the family", etc... are used it is clear that there is a business as well as a personal aspect that links any memeber to his "family", even more so the actual higher ups.

Re: Strictly business.... or not? #9091
06/02/04 05:11 PM
06/02/04 05:11 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 316
Toronto, Canada
UnderBoss Offline
Capo
UnderBoss  Offline
Capo
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 316
Toronto, Canada
Puzo and Copolla are more intelligent than to do anything on a superficial level. The choice Michael made was a very personal one. One that would forever link him to the family and cause him to be involved, forever an insider due to his actions. It was definatly a personal one. However I think there is a deeper psychological tool at work here. When you say "it's just business", that's a way of morally justifying your actions, not having to take blame for them. "They are the rules and we are playing by them", "I am taking orders", etc, these are all ways of not having to make hard moralistic distintions that otherwise may cause you to have a crisis of sorts when you realize you murdered someone.

Re: Strictly business.... or not? #9092
11/24/04 08:52 PM
11/24/04 08:52 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 28
New York
louPete Offline
Wiseguy
louPete  Offline
Wiseguy
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Posts: 28
New York
I like the scene where Michael proposes to kill both of them. The camera very slowly zooms in as Michael begins to look more mature. I always found it interesting how Tom Hagen is the only one not laughing after Michael's short monologue. In fact, he looked like he was deeply considering the idea. Is that possible?


louPete
Re: Strictly business.... or not? #9093
11/25/04 08:32 AM
11/25/04 08:32 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,733
JustMe Offline
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JustMe  Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by louPete:
I always found it interesting how Tom Hagen is the only one not laughing after Michael's short monologue. In fact, he looked like he was deeply considering the idea. Is that possible?
Tom, being the most clever and smart altogether of those who heard Mike’s speech, and knowing well enough what are all the Corleones like, despite their not knowing it themselves, was the least surprised. Here’s the quote from novel: “All four heads turned and stared at him. Clemenza and Tessio were gravely astonished. Hagen looked a little sad, but not surprised. He started to speak and thought better of it.”
There are many interesting things written about this scene in the novel. Just read it – I would love to post everything, I think only that our local Higher-Ups will not approve of me. But the genesis of Mike’s decision is also very interesting. When he goes to see Kay before visiting the hospital, still thinking all this had nothing to do with him, we read: “Thinking this made him feel guilty about not feeling more sympathy for his father. His own father shot full of holes and yet in a curious way Michael, better than anyone else, understood when Tom said it was just business, not personal.”
But after the phone talk with Sonny in the hospital, “For the first time since it had all started he felt a furious anger rising in him, a cold hatred for his father’s enemies.”
After his scene with McClusckey, “He saw the captain give him atriumphant glance and he tried to answer that glance with a smile. At all costs he wanted to hide the delicious icy chilliness that controlled his brain, the surge of wintry cold hatred that pervaded his body. He wanted to give no warning to anyone in this world as to how he felt at this moment. As the Don would not.”
He was not only discovering his own true nature. He made it his rule already to take everything in this world personal. And he new that both were dead men.


keep your mouth shut, and your eyes open.
Re: Strictly business.... or not? #9094
11/25/04 11:32 PM
11/25/04 11:32 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 395
california
Tom Offline
Capo
Tom  Offline
Capo
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 395
california
Regarding Michael, obviously it had a personal effect on him when his father was almost killed. Business-more so, Personal-yes
The turk had to be killed or the Corleones would have to nagotiate with him which isnt what a Corleone does. In business, he had more options, but peronally, he wasnt going to let the attempt pass.
So, that night at the restraunt, he was settling an arguement with an associate and an enemy.


"Well at first like everybody else I, I was a soldier."

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