I was talking about attending the funeral of a tyrant dictator not discussing foreign affairs.

Of course i value their opinions.

Do you value the opinions of people that have suffered under US backed tyrants?


Beyond the Cuban exiles opinions I value the facts, which are that the man was a murderous tyrant, which i clearly stated upthread. He was, and thats not debatable. But that doesn't preclude my understanding that other people in the world have different opinions on Castro, based in their own interactions with his regime.

Our fake Italian mayor loved Che and Castro.

On the first Christmas tree when obama got into the White House after became president was an ornament of Chairmen Mao.

What does that tell you?

A lot of Cuban exiles who've been in the U.S. for 20, 30 years have been brainwashed by Republican propaganda. Their views on Castro and his style of leadership were genuine, but as their sentiments became increasingly manipulated by Republicans and right wingers in the media, many of them sound more and more like typical right wing parrots. I don't blame them. I blame how the Republicans have pounced on their dilemna for political gain, especially in places like south Florida.

You're just mad because they weren't brainwashed by Democrat left-wing propaganda first. Do you blame the Democrats for all the other identity groups used by them for political gain?

Democrats never exploited their anti-Castro sentiments the way Republicans did. Democrats, the nice people that they are, just made sure the Cubans had a quality of life here in the states.

Of course, but I'd bet that depending on which social class or ethnic group their ancestors were from in Cuba you'd get different responses. It's a bit more complex than you might think.

Yeah, JFK never exploited Anti Castro sentiment. Check the history books again little trooper.

Check out the Cuban turnout in Miami when Castro died. They weren't celebrating his life I promise you that. Or the Cuban reporter that blasted Colin Kap for wearing the Castro shirt. Every Cuban social class has the same view on Castro. A tyrannical oppressive dictator.

Bay of Pigs? The Democrats most definitely saw Castro as an angel. He was misunderstood is all. We have riots when a black man is shot by a cop for not putting a gun down. Go try that shit in Castro's Cuba.

Not sure if you are kidding or not. You base your claim that "every Cuban social class" has the same view on Castro on the public demonstrations in Miami and of a Cuban American reporter blasting Kap. I'm assuming you mean Dan LeBatard of espn.

How many Cuban Americans do you know personally? I don't live too far from the second biggest enclave of Cuban Americans in the country(Union City,NJ) and I've known a good number of people of that background. The Cubans who left there as adults immediately after the revolution(mainly the wealthy) are mostly all gone now. THOSE people mainly hated Castro. THEIR kids and grandkids mainly hate Castro. Cubans I've met who aren't descended from that planter class that Castro seized land from have had varying views and opinions about him and the effects of the revolution.

If you remember I was against the Iraq War, but the Afghan War is a different story. According to information that just came out, I think from a former CIA agent, Khalid Sheikh Muhammad said he never expected Bush to declare war on the Taliban and Al Qaeda. He thought Bush was going to treat 9/11 as a police matter, and with that in mind he planned several more large attacks in the United States. Bush stopped him from doing that. Read this article in the Washington Post:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/...m=.cfeec3469c67

I'm not sure you're going to find that magic article that makes Bush look good on national security after he allowed the biggest attack on U.S. soil in history, despite having prior intel of the attacks.

I think this response is rather simplistic and leaves out a lot of real world facts.

First, going back to Truman the USA has opposed communism, so we chose to ally ourselves with other leaders who shared that political position. True, a lot of them didn't have clean hands, but neither did those on the Left, plus those on the Left typically allied themselves with the USSR. So we were stuck with a lesser of evils.

If we didn't help keep our allies in power the Soviet Union would use its resources to overthrow them and install puppet regimes. The USSR kept communist regimes alive in Cuba, Nicaragua, Angola and Ethiopia, for example. None of those regimes were nice. Mengistu of Ethiopia created a famine that led to the deaths of a million. In 2006 he was found guilty of genocide.

In Cuba's case it seems like a false moral equivalency. The regime under Batista was nowhere near as totalitarian as Castro's. Yes, there was corruption under Batista, but are you telling me that there wasn't any under the Castro brothers? While most Cubans live on about $20 a month, the Castros live/lived like millionaires. That's not only hypocritical, that's at least as corrupt as the Duvaliers.

I also don't think it's true that we never criticized our "friends." We did. I recall a lot of criticism against the Duvaliers, but the problem was figuring out what do. Should the United States have moved in, taken over Haiti, cleaned it up and left? Sounds good in theory, but most countries don't appreciate being invaded by foreign powers, even if they have good intentions. His successor Namphy had a reputation for being honest, but only lasted a couple years until he was overthrown. Aristide was criticized for human rights abuses and corruption.

Another thing to consider is that fewer countries are enjoying human rights abuses than in the past because there is less tolerance for it. Russia isn't practicing the abuses it did (at least not on the same scale) when it was the USSR, and China is vastly improved compared to the Mao era. Until 1967 in some parts of the United States it was not legal for black and white people to marry, blacks had to use separate bathrooms and water fountains, and in World War II citizens of Japanese, (and a lesser extent) German and Italian descent were sent to internment camps. Today almost all of the abuses are coming from countries that are officially Muslim. So comparing today's foreign policy with that from decades ago is comparing apples to oranges.

Well, yes it is simplistic response, its also a simplistic thread and i find it interesting that you're singling mine out. But i enjoy engaging, so...

In addition to simplifying my thoughts, i kept my post short intentionally, brevity generally being best on message boards. I didnt really see the need to go into dissertation mode, on subject matter that i knew getthesenets was likely aware of. And i didnt think (based on what I've generally read here) that most other posters would really enjoy a conversation debating whether those that seek to justify our third world policies supporting dictators in the name of strategic interests have it right, or if its those that favor benign detachment that are correct.


But overall i enjoyed reading your post. It was literate and thought out, it's a nice change from some of the others in the thread.

Have you ever been too the World Trade Center man.

I used to go there all the time. My wife worked in one of the buildings.

When they hit the first building I was a sleep. I retired in 1996 way before my wife did.

I started to get calls from kids about where is their mother. I said what time was the building hit. They told me she has to be alright because she left after it was hit. So hearing about it she would come right home. I was right but no Sandra. Kids stopped calling because phone service went out. One daughter was going to Columbia university at that time. I told her just stay where you are.

My wife got home about 6 0clock that night. So in my head I knew she was alright. But by that time I am thinking where the fuck us she if she is alright.

When people start talking about 9/11 and are not from NYC and they knew no one who worked in those buildings.

I am thinking they know shit, and they should fucking shut their stupid months about it.

on no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Again when the Russians left Iraq they took them to Syria. How do I know that guys in the Russian mafia told me that. That's how I know they had no reason to lie.

Interesting. In your response, I didn't see any real world facts. Just a bunch of historical footnotes that are common knowledge, and opinionated assertions you're evidently passing along as fact.

Hey, dont knock it. Black people once had to use separate bathrooms? Who knew? I was as shocked as Claude Rains in Casablanca.

(Reading through posts here on the board, you find there are some people who wish black people still had to use their own loo. Too quote the new president- sad)

Footreads,

I do listen to New Yorkers.

They vote Democrat. Every single election. Maybe you ought to listen to New Yorkers.

BTW, Helen, when I used the word simplistic I didn't mean it as an insult and I probably should have chosen another word, it's just that I've read a number of posts on a different forum where the writers more often than not emote based on superficial knowledge. Sometimes I spend more time in that forum than I should LOL.

I used to get into these idealism vs realism debates with a friend of mine who's a poly sci professor, but he got set in his ways and isn't much of a debater anymore. So I appreciate that we can have our disagreements without taking it personally, and there's been a number of times where you've brought things to my attention that help correct or sharpen my own knowledge.

I expected an ignorant response. You didn't disappoint.

Bush was in office 8 months. The fact is, that Bin Laden and radical Islamist terrorist grew leaps and bounds under the Clinton Administration which was soft on terrorism. The First World Trade Center Bombing? Clinton presidency.Black Hawk Down in Somalia? Clinton. Khobar Towers? Clinton. Kenya and Tanzinia? Clinton. USS Cole? Clinton. It was Bill Clinton and the Democrats soft stance on terrorism that led to 9-11 and the rise of Islamic extremism. If he would have been tougher and not preoccupied with his affairs and other blunders 9-11 could have been prevented.

Don't forget the "wall" created by the Gorelick memo that prevented the FBI and intelligence agencies from sharing information -- written during the Clinton administration.

That Jamie Gorelick was a real piece of work. After writing the memo she covered up the failure of Fannie Mae while paying herself a hefty salary. Later she tried to defend Duke University after it screwed its lacrosse team with fake charges of rape and racism.

No worries. I wasnt insulted at all. Like I said, I do enjoy engaging and good conversations and i hope to have more.

I take trump over the fucking C.U.N.T

How is the recount going?

After two days of recounting

OVERALL
Clinton gained 3 votes
Trump gained 6 votes
Net Trump gain of 3 votes on Day 2

no good recounting! FBI'S jim comey put trump IN white house, check out hillarys numbers before and after comey's letter.

I find it almost impossible to believe you would be happy if Hillary had won.

I think either way Comey will be let go by either one of them.