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How could Tony be alive?
#887905
07/15/16 03:36 PM
07/15/16 03:36 PM
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Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 279
JackieAprile
OP
Capo
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OP
Capo
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 279
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1) From roughly 2004 onward (the Tony B. situation, the War with NY) Tony Soprano was proving to be both troublesome to New York (who, remember, viewed him as a vassal) and within his own family. Capos such as Carlo and Larry were open in the fact that Tony wad fucking them over with the Tony B. crisis; others like Burt were being swayed to new leadership during the War with New York.
2) While Butch gave his tacit approval of the hit on Phil, what authority did he have? The meeting was off-the-books; Butchie, Al and Carmine could all claim no meeting ever happened and no approval was ever given.
They could win by having Tony do their dirty work for them, and then scoring further points by "finishing the job" and killing Tony themselves, all while having plausible deniability as to their complicity in Phil's murder. Meanwhile, Butch emerges as Boss, gains the support of Phil's loyalists by avenging Phil's death by killing Tony, and now has a much weaker and smaller NJ Family which would truly be a vassal family.
3) Even if Butch had the approval of the very Commission itself to have Phil killed, the way in which Phil was murdered - In front of his family, no open casket - changed the whole ballgame. Even though Tony himself didn't mean for this to be the case, Phil was killed in both the most horrible and by Mafia terms, disrespectful way possible; He was killed in front of his family, a no-no, and was denied an open casket - the ultimate sign of disrespect.
Even if Butchie had gotten the approval, members of his own family or other families even might think, "This fucking Tony Soprano is crazy, who does he think he is?" It also sets bad precedent; Jersey could get away with whacking a member of the Commission in such a brutal fashion and even get compensated for the loss of his brother in law? How weak would that make Butchie look as Boss to any Capos/Soldiers who liked Phil? To the other Bosses?
Didn't Tony think about any of this? Is there any logical way Tony could be alive?
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Re: How could Tony be alive?
[Re: JackieAprile]
#887921
07/15/16 07:53 PM
07/15/16 07:53 PM
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Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 601
SoCalGangs
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 601
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Based on everything that happened in the show, the only logical ending is that Tony is murdered.
A more realistic ending in my opinion, although maybe not a better ending, would have been if Christopher doesn't die off, and instead, finally decides to go to the Feds and testify against Tony, and the rest and cripples the family.
Then he would tell all he knows, everyone would find out what really happened with Adrianna, Richie Aprile, Raplh, etc etc. Tony would've finally got exposed.
It was obvious that it was heading that way and Tony knew it so he used the car crash as opportunity to stop that from happening, but realistically that should've been the ending.
Last edited by SoCalGangs; 07/15/16 10:00 PM.
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Re: How could Tony be alive?
[Re: SoCalGangs]
#888114
07/19/16 03:28 PM
07/19/16 03:28 PM
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Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 279
JackieAprile
OP
Capo
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OP
Capo
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 279
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Based on everything that happened in the show, the only logical ending is that Tony is murdered.
A more realistic ending in my opinion, although maybe not a better ending, would have been if Christopher doesn't die off, and instead, finally decides to go to the Feds and testify against Tony, and the rest and cripples the family.
Then he would tell all he knows, everyone would find out what really happened with Adrianna, Richie Aprile, Raplh, etc etc. Tony would've finally got exposed.
It was obvious that it was heading that way and Tony knew it so he used the car crash as opportunity to stop that from happening, but realistically that should've been the ending. There's hints that Christopher had flipped by the time of his death. The last time we see Chris before the murder, he's drunk and talking about how he could flip and live well in the program. The next time he's with Tony, he dismantles Tony's idealization of his father (the only Mafia connection he and Tony have left) by belittling his father as nothing more than a junkie. Than you have him playing The Departed Soundtrack. The Departed centers around a gangster's protege who is playing both sides of the fence with the police; said gangster is himself using giving tidbits of info to the FBI to stay out of jail and gain info on rivals; Tony in the end gives up the Arab associates of the family to the Feds in exchange for info on Phil. Lastly, for the first time in years, Chris, before the accident, is suddenly shown wearing a ballcap again.It is established in Season 4 of The Sopranos that the FBI has a new form of wire wherein the microphone is right inside the ballcap. Also, Chris advocates for going easy on Phil. Rats aren't supposed to encourage violence in the Mob (bear in mind that Alfie, the snitch in Phil's family, is the only one who speaks against going to war with Jersey). This is a far cry from Chris' attitude earlier in the Season that he "wasn't scared" of the 200 soldiers in Phil's family, especially when you consider that he was on coke, which would normally make one more prone to impulsive, violent decisions. Also note his jumpiness and nervyness while he's driving. While it could be the coke, it could also be nerves because this is the first time he's wearing a wire for the Feds.
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Re: How could Tony be alive?
[Re: OakAsFan]
#891950
08/26/16 02:10 AM
08/26/16 02:10 AM
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 360
yatescj7
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 360
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Phil started the war with Tony. Breaking the rules in the commission of war is different than breaking them in peacetime. When Tony is at the diner with his family, an accord had already been reached between the Lupertazzi's and Sopranos. So, in that instance, killing someone right in front of their family would be less tolerable. When Soprano soldier Walden spotted Phil at the gas station, Phil was on the hunt for Tony. It's on site in a situation like that. Doesn't matter if Phil has the Pope with him. Sketchy subject. Johnny Sack was feuding with Little Carmine on who was going to take over the Lupertazzi Family. Tony B. killed Joey Peeps, Billy Leotardo and wounded Phil Leotardo, so technically the Soprano Family interfered and whacked 3 Lupertazzi wiseguys and wounded a capo and fucked up a soldier Coco Cogliano. Tony killed Tony B. instead of letting Phil and his family avenge their guys death. Phil might've went overboard a little, but Tony started that war inadvertently. Plus the Vito being a fag and not whacking him thing. Not to mention Tony laid hands on a made guy (Phil) in that auto crash.
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Re: How could Tony be alive?
[Re: OakAsFan]
#892889
09/05/16 01:50 AM
09/05/16 01:50 AM
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 360
yatescj7
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 360
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Tony had reason to believe Chris was going to rat from the very first episode, when Chris talked about his screenplay. Tony had a delusional outlook on Chris, that Chris was going to run the family as an intermediary between Tony and the captains, then become boss himself when Tony was gone. He saw Chris as the gangster son that AJ could never be. When Chris told Tony that he had gotten high that night, and Tony saw the tree branch had impaled the car seat that the baby would have been in, he came to his senses (in a sociopathic way) and came to terms that Chris really was no good, and that the company had to finally part ways with him... close, very close. but the underlying factor was Tony thought Chrissy was bad luck,not only for Chrissy's kid but for TONY and the family. Kind of alluded to in the last episode that black cat looking at Chrissy's picture. Tony gave Chrissy probably more than 9 chances to straighten up before he killed him. There are several subplots going on. Tony not banging Skiff, Chrissy meeting her at AA and banging her, Tony meeting Chrissy's Vegas trim and doing shrooms saying all the crazy stuff he says. Classic Sopranos.
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