I have often heard that African American gangsters in the 70s like Frank Lucas, Nicky Barnes and Frank Matthews had the power and influence that even rivaled the Five Families maybe even surpassed them at the time...is this accurate?

Pee-Wee Kirkland!

Absolutely not. Black gangsters have never possessed the intelligence to become as organized as the American Cosa Nostra.

What about Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson?

Black men aren't smart enough to become gangsters -- just smart enough to sit on the Supreme Court and become President of the United States.

This board is full of racist, right wing, conspiracy filth. You have people over in another topic who legitimately believe that the EU purposely lets migrants in to create a federalized union. Seriously... and Blacks are the dumb ones.

Too bad we can't just talk about fucking organized crime without it become a racial argument. Thanks Ralphie! Appreciate it!

Fucking perfectly said.

+1 some of the things i read on this board is embarrassing

Though I am against the way the EU and Merkel in particular are dealing with the refugee problem, I am by no means racist..

There is a refugee center near my parents' house in the south of Holland and around 70% are young, able and single men, and I hear this is pretty much the case everywhere. I talked to my neighbor who is a Kurdish lady who came here during the first Gulf war and even she says that this is going to be a very big problem. If I was a young, single and healthy man, I can't imagine myself fleeing my country when it was under attack, but that's me..

And I don't think it is too far fetched that there is some sort of agenda by certain powerful groups who want to create a federalized union in Europe. If it was up to those guys, big business and bankers, there would be a world government. Very smart people have stated this also, so this is not some tin foil hat shit imo..

Even though this is now feeding from another topic, you agreed with the assessment "the entire migrant thing is planned."

Really? The entire fucking thing is planned, huh? Incredible. Civil wars? Planned. Refugee crises? Planned. Amazing the corporate elite has enough control to know exactly how a civil war will play out! It's crazy -- some people actually think war is hard to control! How stupid are they?

And, damn it, this is now my fault.

Whatever, this thread had 0 hope anyway, especially on this board.

There are structural reasons for the Italian Mafia's success. A little thing called "prohibition" might have fed into it.

alright guys.... lets get back on track


so did these these guys have the power to challenge the mafia?

No, not that it is 100% planned, that's impossible..

Normally I never react on political subjects and I regret doing it, because a lot of things are misunderstood and taken the wrong way..
I also agree 100% with letting families, fathers and mothers with children, old people and sick people have a safe place in the EU.
But again to make my point, when I look at the refugee centers and a big majority are young, able and single men, I think that situation isn't good and will create a lot of problems in the future. There are already problems btw, almost every week there are big fights, some with weapons at the centers between the different nationalities. That's the last thing I'm saying about it and to be 100% clear I'm not a racist and absolutely don't agree with the black people are too dumb statement..

No they didn't have the power..but The mob dealt with them because of their control in certain areas..In the big picture..No.

I feel like an idiot now, i just realized I literaly asked the same question 2 years ago ...WOW

http://www.gangsterbb.net/threads/ubbthr...4209#Post764209

anyways, what is the answer to the question in your guys opinions?

Huh? I'm registered Democrat who voted for Obama twice!! The smartest person I know happens to be black. Hell, my gf is black. No one is saying all black people are stupid, but we can't overlook the fact that black gangsters have never been as organized as the mob. They behave like morons. Why? Because intelligent black people aren't criminals.

You're right Fire Hawk, I will drop it, was my last post on the subject..

To answer your question, and this is just my opinion, I think if guys like Frank Lucas, Frank Matthews and Ike Atkinson had more time to grow their operations and cooperate with each other even more, they could have challenged the mafia eventually. Frank Matthews organized a summit right before he disappeared, if they gave him 5 or so more years he maybe could've been the black equivalent of a Lucky Luciano..

BTW: Paul Castellano and Tommy Lucchese allegedly couldn't stand it, that Matthews had a house in the same street as them on Staten Island..

were talking about the American mob right..because I think they probably would of never been able to match the Sicilian Mob..but they could of rivaled the American families

Yes of course the American mob, because they operate on the same territory..

Matthews was a very fascinating guy in general. Have you ever seen the documentary about him by Al Profit?? Was very good, I'll post it here below just in case..

Let's see since this question have been asked before.

The drug trafficking aspect is where Frank Matthews & Ike Atkinson excelled in more so than the NYC families. In general rackets the NYC families have more diverse income and their honey & milk rackets won't rely on a foreign source.

Comparing a Kingpin's operation to an individual or collective NYC family (ies) is hardly comparable. They're a few structured groups in NYC underworld that have maintained which will be the prison gangs & bikers.

Also your statement is false too.

BTW, have you answered any of the questions in the Tombstone thread?

I agree BF, when I said they would surpass LCN, I meant in the field of drug trafficking and maybe the amount of money being made in general..

I've got a question BF, considering this is your field of expertise, do you know how many dealers attended Matthews' summit in Atlanta in '71?? And is it known who they were??

Surpassing The Sicilian Mob....or the American Mob?

LCN is the American mob and I already answered your question my friend, look a couple of posts above, also attached a doc about Matthews..

Somebody had to say it.

April fools already passed man

That's great question and it's going to take time to dig up if there's any information. I found this interesting conversation from the forum of CityData.com by a poster:

" The story I always heard as a kid was that this drug kingpin from NYC back in the late 60's and early 70's named Frank Mathews basically made the Bluff his southern HQ. Most people are familiar with Frank Lucas, who was around at the same time too, but Frank Mathews was a lot bigger and never got caught. Frank Lucas had the Heroin in NYC on lock while Frank Mathews had the whole country on lock. In 1971 Frank Mathews had a conference here in Atlanta of all the countries biggest Black and Hispanic drug dealers at that time and the goal of the conference was to basically cut the Italian Mafia out of the Heroin business. And in the process of doing that he bought up some property in the Bluff and made them into stash spots for his southern distributors so that they would not have to drive all the way to NYC for a re-up. And the result of that was the Bluff became known as the place to go to get large quantities of Heroin throughout the entire south, not just Atlanta. People all the way there from the Gulf Coast to Virginia would drive there to buy in large quantities of Heroin and then go back home, break it down, put a cut on it and sell it on the streets in their respective cities. Once Frank Mathews vanished in the mid 70's, the Bluff continued to be the go to place in the south for wholesale amounts of Heroin. Soon after that people in the Bluff not involved in the drug game started moving out and what started out as an area with a few stash spots here or there turned into not only wholesale distribution but street level distribution from the newly vacant houses. The Bluff was already well known in Heroin circles in the south as the go to place for that drug so it was not much of a stretch for them transition to that. And the end result is what you have today- You have a drug that still even today is not as easy to find in the south as Weed or Coke, but in that one small area between Simpson and Bankhead its everywhere and not hard to find at all."

@ ralphie

I've told you before, your comments are loaded, the way you phrase things goes a long way to exposing your real agenda. You gotta stop saying stuff like that, then trying to backpedal out of it....

BlackFamily just posted something on indictments of GDs in the southeast, they had a cop hit man, a hierarchy, methodology for enforcing rules, they even have a transplanted version of a Chicago girl gang I thought was defunct, don't tell me black criminals are incapable of maintaining a hierarchy. Like that's a goofy statement.

I know you know about the numbers wars in Harlem, and Chicago, guys like Teddy Roe, don't tell me blacks can't do math, lol.....

I feel like what you mean is blacks aren't as diversified as the mafia, but dude, who the fuck is? Not even the cartels will ever " control" the Teamsters or the docks or the airports or anything like that, that's never coming back, not unless there is another J Edgar Hoover waiting in the wings that will ignore the mob for another 50 years. Not unless there is another liquor prohibition, FOLLOWED BY A MAJOR ECONOMIC DEPRESSION,That empowers rich criminals....

@BlackFam
That's a great post, good info, real informative too on how the drug trade works, how you can have an area that is relatively remote, but still is a hub for narcotics based off of historic connections, and relationships made in the past. It's funny cause this is actually more like the structure of the " Drug Dealing Mafia" I'll call it, as opposed to the control the territory and siphon resources from it, a la labor unions, extortion, docks, business specific to a certain area (You need a standing military like presence for this, i.e. Made guys, for a drug network you need a core group of people you can trust TO GET THE DRUGS TO THE MARKET and BUYERS,that's mostly it..). I keep trying to tell people these organizations are going to have different methodologies. STOP TRYING TO COMPARE THEM, LOL..

@ralphie
Here read this....


http://www.ngcrc.com/ngcrc/page14.htm



Specifically I like this passage just for you......

Thus, on August 10, 1993, when Larry Hoover actually appeared before the "parole board", he had amassed a wealth of political and community activists in support of his bid for parole. We had heard from a reliable source that some of those who did testify for Larry Hoover were handsomely paid, as much as $50,000; however, this has never been confirmed. The parole board voted 8-0 against giving Larry Hoover a parole.

Astute newspaper reporters like the Chicago Tribune's George Papajohn were skeptical of how rehabilitated Hoover was and how sincere he was about ordering his gang to "go straight". Reporters like Papajohn dug deeper, and they published their stories: they reported that it was a "hoax", it was a "scam", it was preposterous to assume that this notorious gang leader would be an asset to any community.

In the summer of 1993 summer Larry Hoover engineered a major gang organization accomplishment: a big GD picnic in rural Kankakee County, Illinois at a private farm. The official GD name for the event was the "Gala Illinois Family Day Voters Picnic". Think of it as a "Woodstock" for GDs; because about ten thousand (10,000) of them showed up. They partied, ate, listened to music, got high, milled with the throngs of GDs, took pictures of each other in their finest gang clothing, and made quite a picture as a massive gang gathering, perhaps the largest ever recorded in U.S. history. They were bused in: the hundreds of buses were rented or paid for by the gang itself. Larry Hoover would make a call from his relative comfort in the Vienna minimum security facility, and speak to the thousands of GDs present at the picnic over a loud speaker system that was set-up for the event.

---(The Gd Appalachin lol)--

insert gang picnic photo's here

-----

A major "coup" for the GD gang occurred in the fall of 1993. In October the GDs organized a "peace treaty summit meeting" in Chicago, bringing in Crips from all over the continental USA, as well as a lot of GD's and sympathizers to the GD "cause". The year 1993 would therefore signal the year in which "Crips" would align themselves into a national gang alliance system with the "Folks" (particularly GDs). Today, "Crips" and "Folks" are aligned in the national gang alliance system. It was not a hard allegiance to make: both Crips and GDs wear "blue" colors. As this initial alliance system developed and spread nationally, in local communities big and small, and inside correctional institutions everywhere, it basically forced the "Bloods" to align themselves with the "People" or "Brother" gang alliance system, by default in terms of what the power struggle had left them with: a choice of necessity, not convenience.

Obviously, the ability of the GD gang to hold this conference and stage other ludicrous events in Chicago during the Fall of 1993 made them formidable. Citizens were shocked and dumbfounded how the GDs had control over the Englewood High School in Chicago; where an "awards ceremony" was held for the Gang Peace Treaty Summit Meeting: it involved giving out awards for Community Leadership to the likes of persons like Larry Hoover and other notorious gang leaders. Some how the GDs had coopted and controlled an important government facility: a public high school, using the schools auditorium for an official gang event.

To our knowledge, no parent in Chicago who had a child attending Englewood High School at the time has ever filed a federal law suit against the Chicago Public School system for a civil RICO cause of action involving the criminal corruption of their children. But this author taught a gang class to the teachers at that school at that location during the same time frame: the teachers were obviously demanding gang information, because they sensed something was "amiss", the school was being turned over to a gang (the GDs). The teachers demanded an after school hours college course be taught about gangs at the Englewood High School, and they wanted me: I volunteered through my university to do this. I gained much valuable insight into the power of the GD gang at that time.

About time of the Fall of 1993, the federal government had its Operation HEADACHE, the official codename for the federal investigation of the GDs in full swing. It meant a unique way of gathering intelligence. The visitors who would come to see Larry Hoover in the Vienna Correctional Facility were given special visitor badges, inserted in between the thick lamination of the visitor's badges were subminiature radio frequency transmitter devices, designed to provide a listening station to the content of the "visiting" that went on with Larry Hoover. As one of the investigators on the case related to me, well into the investigation, one of the visitors with such a "wired" visiting badge simply walked out of the institution and kept the badge as a souvenir of visiting Larry Hoover. On their way home, they were still able to be monitored. But at some point the individual was so proud of getting this "trophy" of his visit to "King Larry" he kept playing with it, and noticed a small bulge in the middle, and his curiosity got the better of him, and he began to unravel the package to actually discover the transmitter device contained in it. Certainly Larry Hoover was soon notified of this development, but by then it was really far too late. Too much incriminating information had already been gathered in the preceding months of the court authorized intercept.

During the month of June, 1994 I.D.O.C. correctional officers complained through their union at the Pontiac prison that prison administrators were making deals with gang leaders; the CO's demanded a zero-tolerance policy towards gangs to improve CO safety. They would not get their zero-tolerance policy until after the infamous "Speck tape" hits the national news and makes the entire Illinois prison system appear to be corrupted. The Speck tape would shake up the prison system, and continue to have reverberations well up until the time of this writing in late 1999.

In the fall of 1994 Larry Hoover was transferred out of the Minimum Security Facility in Vienna and into a tighter facility at Dixon, Illinois. Obviously, IDOC knew at this point that the federal investigation, code-named "Operation HEADACHE" was underway and that they had scored evidence incriminating Larry Hoover, such that he was about to be indicted. From an investigator who was involved with that operation, we were told that over 8,000 conversations were recorded, amassing a wealth of intelligence on the GD gang. It would not look so bad if Larry was taken into federal custody if this were done at a more secure facility. But even at the Dixon prison, Larry Hoover's "job" was that of the visiting room: he had visitors every day; he ate steak sandwiches, milk shakes, and chicken from the "grill" at the visiting room. He never ate off the "main line" in the inmate chow hall. He did not do any work, he had no assignment, he was busy EVERYDAY meeting with the endless number of visitors who would come to the prison to meet with him. He obviously had his own "section" of the visiting room staked out, it was "Larry Hoover's" area.

By the year 1994 "Bloods" were forced to ally with "People" and "Brothers" gangs in national gang alliance system started in 1993 where crips and folks joined.


READ THIS ONE YOU WILL LOVE IT LOL




Incredible, but true, in early 1994 Wallace "Gator" Bradley, spokesperson for GD front group "21st Century VOTE" meets with President Bill Clinton in the White House. He had the audacity to tell the president he represented a group called "Better Growth and Development". This issue never surfaced in any of the subsequent debate and campaign coverage when President Clinton began his run for a second term in office. But it truly was the first gang to get a representative into the inner sanctum of the White House. Some gang experts mistakenly refer to the case of Jeff Fort, the leader of the El Rukns, known more commonly as the Black P. Stone Nation, as the first person to pull this off, but that is factually untrue: Jeff Fort had an invitation to an inaugural event for President Nixon, but never actually got there. The photographic evidence of this is documented in the Chicago Tribune, February 18, 1994, section 2, p. 2.

During the time frame of 1994-95 the GDs fronted two candidates for election to Chicago City Council; both were defeated.

In March of 1995 Larry Hoover makes his last effort to gain a parole. This becomes one of the most sophisticated efforts to secure his release. It includes using the testimony of two Ph.D. university professors testifying for Larry Hoover (Dwight Conquergood from Northwestern University, Chicago, IL; and Clemens Bartollas, from the University of Northern Iowa). Obviously, his parole bid fails. The parole board voted 10-0 against giving Larry Hoover a parole.

On March 15, 1995 Larry Hoover issues a letter to all GDs in prison and out on the streets. It is a well-crafted letter, and thus probably actually written by one of his aides or attorneys. A copy of this letter is provided in Figure 45.

No, it's not. Anyone who claims any of these guys even came close to rivaling the five families is either ignorant or engaging in blatant revisionist history. Thats not racism saying that, just the facts. That it's even a question, especially when we're talking pre-1980s, is surprising. Maybe too much watching Hoodlum or American Gangster. And incidentally, the mob never looked at Bumpy Johnson as an equal. He was basically the front man for the Genovese family in the black community.

Oh, and by the way, while Justice Thomas is certainly a smart man, the only reason Obama made it to the White house is many were dumb enough to vote for him. But I digress...

The Internet is real, it's out there if you WANNA SEE IT, if not well....