@blackjack

I don't want to come off as some badass, but I've known 12 year olds that caught bodies. There were kids in my sixth grade class in cast from bullet wounds. I saw my first gun fired at like four, lol. I just grew up in a outlaw culture...

And for guys not knowing or whatever, true story;
I know two guys, had a beef, and said okay let's have a shootout and see who wins. They actually did on some Wild West shit, shot it out and one guy did die. That's the type of shit I grew up around, don't mistake me for some internet bandit my man...

Also I think you misunderstood what I was saying (maybe I didn't say it at all)


All I meant was that in Pistones book, I think he quoted Lefty as saying "Sonny Black took over all the drugs". Now this whole family conflict at this time is about drugs.This is after the Galante hit, and the three capo murders, and if I'm not mistaken after Catalano stepped down as acting boss. So who's left? Sonny and Joe Massino, Sonny has the dope, and Massino has the connection to Rastelli. Who's going to be boss at this point? Was it clear cut? I could see them silently, secretly jockeying against each other for the spot. That's what I meant with that story of him going to his death or whatever, not like pooh it's no big deal to walk into a room knowing your gonna die. The three capos were like 50/50 they would be hit and still went. I meant that that story doesn't really mean, that it's an impossibility that they would be jockeying for power.

And just for clarification, was the Colombo guy Jilly dead? Why not hit HIM then?
They informed Lefty of the plot against him, right? I think they even arrested him to save his life. But when they give Sonny the card, beyond telling him about Pistone, did they tell him his life was in danger afterwards? Like they did Gotti?


That's what I left out I guess, sorry for the confusion...

Joe Massino is full of shit about those killings. The others in the family all said the order came from Rustelli and it was to gain face cause of the Brasco fiasco. Jelly was never killed cause he was a Colombo and really did not bring Pistone around that much. Donnie was a hang around during his time with the Colombos, and was never on record with any of the Colombo. Mirra seen this and started to recruit Pistone, but the FBI needed the op to gain information on other families if it could, so that is why Pistone switched families.

Sonny Black had a lot more power than Massino, he did in fact controlled most of the drugs in the family which caused Sonny Red to round up Capos against Rustelli rule, I believe there were at least 8 crews originally in the revolt. Sonny Black making a move against Phil doesn't make much sense, as he was the most loyal member to Rustelli. The bottom line is that Massino was jealous of Sonny Blacks power, plus Brasco would be made before Vitale(this comes from Richard Cantarella, Frank Coppa who was told this at a wedding or party, and Salvatore Vitale) which Joe did not like.

@ Giacomo


You are hitting on a lot of points I was trying to make. Massino WANTED TO BE BOSS, but of all the factions, he was arguably the weakest.
But, (correct me if I'm wrong) he was the one who got to see Rastelli, so when he comes back to the streets, he carries the word of the boss. IT seemed THAT was his major play, why Galante didn't want him meeting with Rastelli.

The point I was trying to make is that they don't have to be mutually exclusive. This is a game of 3D chess, Massino, before the Brasco thing comes out, probably in the back of his mind WANTS Sonny out of there, and the Brasco thing was like a present from the mob gods. That's all I was trying to say, it's like Massino is actually telling on himself for real like, " Well the Brasco thing was the excuse I USED, but he really died cause he was in my way".......

That does make alot of sense. I never thought of it that way..

It does make sense CabriniGreen. Thank you,

Sonny Black, Sonny Red and Phil Lucky had a lot of connections nationally. Who did Big Joe know except the families in New York? No one. That is why there were no joint ventures with other families nation wide, he even ordered his men to stop joint ventures with other New York families, but there are a few of them that did not obey Joe's orders and you can see these guys have gained power and wealth since then.