I have no way of knowing for sure one way or the other if Detroit has had any ceremonies since 2000. I do know that, unlike other families still around, there's been no evidence of any. I'm sure some will attribute that to Detroit being so secretive but even Scott hasn't confirmed any. And he'd be all over that if it were so. I also do know it's highly unlikely they could make anywhere near the amount of members who have died since 2000. Just do the math. If even half those names I listed were members, we're looking at a much smaller family than some imagine.

Again, while I can believe they have some semblance of a hierarchy - that doesn't take much - I simply don't take Scott's charts at face value. And that's the only place you or anyone else have seen such a hierarchy. In fact, take away Scott altogether and we're probably not even having this debate.

I have not ignored your points. I just don't see them as a valid excuse to have the image of the family that you do. You can have the best run, most tight knit family, but if you don't have the manpower to sustain yourself it really doesn't matter.

Do I think it's possible they're doing better than I think? Let me put it this way. Let's see if the next 15 years will be the last 15 years. I'm betting they will be. I don't need to wait forever, or until Scott stops writing about them, to see the writing on the wall concerning this family. The question is, at what point do you finally write this family off?