Yes, they are Scott's charts, not the feds. Those who have been on these forums as long as I have (that's none of you) know not to take Scott's estimates and charts at face value but with at least a grain of salt. I have explained over and over again why that is - constantly changing estimates, charts that don't differentiate between members and associates, unrealistically hierarchical, etc. I think he does his best, trying to piece together info as much as he can, but his contradictions and inconsistencies have shown it's largely guesswork on his part. Anyone who thinks his charts, as they appear online, are something that comes straight from the feds is delusional.

In fact, its telling that we really haven't seen any recent estimates from the feds. Other than Scott's numbers, the only other estimate I've seen since the turn of the century was that 2001 article that mentioned 30 members. This was the same estimate 5 years earlier during the GamTax case so we can put some stock in it. As I pointed out, dozens of members or possible members have died since 2000. Even if you choose to believe Detroit is still making members, which there's been no evidence of, to think they've made enough to maintain those 30 members - let alone getting bigger - is delusional.

Lastly, I think some of you have a reading compression problem because I've always said, given the conflicting opinions of OC experts on Detroit, one can be justified in including it among the remaining viable mob families. What isn't justifiable is buying into the false image of a strong family, with 30, 40, or more members, that is virtually immune to law enforcement. Nor is it justifiable to excuse the relative lack of cases against the family on its intermarriage of members, the feds having other investigative priorities, the economic state of the city, etc. At best you have a very small family, with some semblance of a hierarchy, who's illegal activities don't go beyond bookmaking. And, for comparison purposes, that sounds a lot like Buffalo.




See what I said above about people being justified in still including Detroit among the remaining viable families as long as the image they have of the family has some basis in demonstrable fact.

I don't think Scott is a bullshitter or intentionally misleads. I do think he's been sloppy at times, slow to admit he's guessing on a lot of stuff, and quick to take liberties with slapping labels on guys and overstating the position of the family. It's a common thing one sees with mob authors and their subject. See The Sixth Family by Humphreys and Lamothe or Gangbusters by Volkman, for example.

Lastly, considering where the membership was 15-20 years ago, and how many members have died over that period, I'd honestly be surprised if the family even has 20-25 members at this point.



You would have a point if I was saying nobody can believe there is still a viable family in Detroit. But, as I pointed out twice above, people can be justified in holding that viewpoint given the conflicting opinions by OC experts. Again, what isn't excusable is having an unrealistic image of the family or depending on lame excuses to explain away the lack of cases there.

Furthermore, I've always said I take all evidence on a matter and weigh it in the balance. Though I certainly don't hold all sources as being equal. Nobody on these boards puts more weight in what the feds say than I do. Again, we're talking about what the feds say here - not Scott. But, as I've also said, I put even more stock in what the feds do than what they say. In other words, their actions speak louder than their words. The feds say the mob is still a priority in other areas of the country and we see resulting cases. The same really can't be said for Detroit.



I'm not sure it's really been established there are 4 factions, though that can partly depend on how you want to define the term. Those who have floated the faction theory haven't agreed. Scott named the 4 factions as being headed by Merlino, Borgesi, Narducci, and Pungitore. Schratweiser named Merlino, Ligambi, Narducci, and Pungitore. And that's not including other reports about a 3 man ruling panel.

Capeci, who I consider very credible, said he has conflicting sources about the Gambino leadership. Some say Cali is now acting boss while others say it's still Cefalu.

Most of the 2004 New Jersey OC report is pretty straight on. A few things, like who it labels in the Genovese hierarchy, is questionable though.

I'm not sure what you mean by double standards. I apply the same to each family. For example, one could argue that Philly is more or less a gambling operation at this point. The difference is, we've seen a lot more cases there than in Detroit. And we've seen guys specifically listed as a certain rank in indictments that can verify or correct charts on the forums. Not so in Detroit.



I hear you. You'd think after years of having the known facts being put right in front of their face, people would learn. But I suppose some people are going to believe what they want to believe. It's why I say there will still be people with an outdated view of the Detroit mob years from now even after the status quo of little in the way of mob cases continues.