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Re: The Mafia's relationship with the Catholic Church?
[Re: sbhc]
#870774
12/28/15 05:20 AM
12/28/15 05:20 AM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 711 Great Britain
British
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 711
Great Britain
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Speaking as a Protestant from Ulster stock, I would say it would be very hypocritical for any church no matter the faith to condone murder. But only God can judge and no priest or minister has the right to pass judgment!
A funeral service should be allowed as long as its not got any form of 'celebration' of that persons crimes whatever they are.
British is best....
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Re: The Mafia's relationship with the Catholic Church?
[Re: furio_from_naples]
#870783
12/28/15 08:50 AM
12/28/15 08:50 AM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 711 Great Britain
British
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 711
Great Britain
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British what happened and happen today between UK and Irland is a religion war;the english until 1500 oppressed the cattolic irish and Cromwell destroyed a city named drogheda to tame the irish men. In italy is different and the religione for the mobster is only external:so for respect the Our Lady statue bows in front of the mobsters home,John dickie made a documentary Called Chiesa Nostra, a word joke 'tween chiesa and cosa nostra. Cutolo said that will be repent only in front of God. For me who kill innocent people is out of God Grace and must be excommunicate. But it's just my opinion. Furio, we all have our views on that, it's not as black and white and you think but that's not got anything to do with this. I have RC friends and they know my views on their church and I would ask that those without sin cast the first stone, there is much sin within that church so if an individual has a faith then who is a priest to say whether they get a funeral, only God can judge...
British is best....
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Re: The Mafia's relationship with the Catholic Church?
[Re: Moe_Tilden]
#870859
12/28/15 10:18 PM
12/28/15 10:18 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 711 Great Britain
British
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 711
Great Britain
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There is no need to sugarcoat anything Furio.
The Irish "famine" was more like a deliberate genocide than a famine.
It was population control pure and simple. Irish people were perceived as a threat to the British, so my ancestors were deliberately starved and forced to emigrate in their millions, which left the British free to reinforce their policies in the country.
The British Prime Minister, Tony Blair, apologized for it.
British is an absolute imbecile. If you are looking for an intelligent British perspective on interrelations with Ireland then you are not going to get it from him. Of course here we go with Moe the bigot with his one sided republican nonsense The famine affected Protestants as well! What this has to do with the original post question, answer the original point!! Only God can judge....
Last edited by British; 12/28/15 10:38 PM.
British is best....
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Re: The Mafia's relationship with the Catholic Church?
[Re: sbhc]
#870868
12/28/15 11:37 PM
12/28/15 11:37 PM
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Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 935 Past caring, then hang a left
helenwheels
Underboss
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Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 935
Past caring, then hang a left
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The RC church in the US can and does deny funeral masses to certain people. Gotti, Frank DeCicco and Castellano were all denied this rite.
This doesn't mean the church denies they will be forgiven by God for their sins. That's between them and God. They are granted a funeral service, but not the full rite of Mass.
Canon 1184 of the Code of Canon Law, is ''The following are to be deprived of ecclesiastic funeral rites: notorious apostates, heretics and schismatics; persons who have chosen the cremation of their own bodies for reasons opposed to the Christian faith; other manifest sinners for whom ecclesiastic funeral rites cannot be granted without public scandal to the faithful.''
In the cases of Gotti and Castellano it was to avoid the appearance that the church condoned their criminal activity, which falls under the last reason of the Canon.
All God's children are not beautiful. Most of God's children are, in fact, barely presentable.
I never met anyone who didn't have a very smart child. What happens to these children, you wonder, when they reach adulthood?
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Re: The Mafia's relationship with the Catholic Church?
[Re: helenwheels]
#870878
12/29/15 12:57 AM
12/29/15 12:57 AM
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Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 188
sbhc
OP
Made Member
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OP
Made Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 188
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The RC church in the US can and does deny funeral masses to certain people. Gotti, Frank DeCicco and Castellano were all denied this rite.
This doesn't mean the church denies they will be forgiven by God for their sins. That's between them and God. They are granted a funeral service, but not the full rite of Mass.
Canon 1184 of the Code of Canon Law, is ''The following are to be deprived of ecclesiastic funeral rites: notorious apostates, heretics and schismatics; persons who have chosen the cremation of their own bodies for reasons opposed to the Christian faith; other manifest sinners for whom ecclesiastic funeral rites cannot be granted without public scandal to the faithful.''
In the cases of Gotti and Castellano it was to avoid the appearance that the church condoned their criminal activity, which falls under the last reason of the Canon.
Castellano wasn't even allowed to be buried in Catholic cemetery. That was just crazy stuff, God Almighty will judge the dead, not Man.
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Re: The Mafia's relationship with the Catholic Church?
[Re: sbhc]
#870897
12/29/15 09:21 AM
12/29/15 09:21 AM
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 5,094
Moe_Tilden
ForeverBotheringIranians
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ForeverBotheringIranians
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 5,094
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_(1972) Nobody condoning terrorism here but the IRA wouldn't exist if the British Army wasn't slaughtering defenseless, unarmed, innocent women and children in the street. Not to mention British Army soldiers going off the reservation and personally committing murders i.e. Robert Nairac. Context is important.
I invoke my right under the 5th amendment of the United States constitution and decline to answer the question.
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Re: The Mafia's relationship with the Catholic Church?
[Re: Moe_Tilden]
#870899
12/29/15 09:36 AM
12/29/15 09:36 AM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 711 Great Britain
British
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 711
Great Britain
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_(1972) Nobody condoning terrorism here but the IRA wouldn't exist if the British Army wasn't slaughtering defenseless, unarmed, innocent women and children in the street. Not to mention British Army soldiers going off the reservation and personally committing murders i.e. Robert Nairac. Context is important. The IRA were bombing and murdering way before the British army arrived to try and keep the peace. British forces killed many loyalists as well, Brian Robinson, the set up of Billy Wright and many more Stop with the incessant victimhood card, anyhow why can't you reply to the original posters question? I think its an interesting point, what is the stance from the RC church in Italy and Sicily to Cosa Nostra members?
British is best....
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Re: The Mafia's relationship with the Catholic Church?
[Re: British]
#870900
12/29/15 09:45 AM
12/29/15 09:45 AM
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 5,094
Moe_Tilden
ForeverBotheringIranians
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ForeverBotheringIranians
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 5,094
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_(1972) Nobody condoning terrorism here but the IRA wouldn't exist if the British Army wasn't slaughtering defenseless, unarmed, innocent women and children in the street. Not to mention British Army soldiers going off the reservation and personally committing murders i.e. Robert Nairac. Context is important. The IRA were bombing and murdering way before the British army arrived to try and keep the peace.British forces killed many loyalists as well, Brian Robinson, the set up of Billy Wright and many more Stop with the incessant victimhood card, anyhow why can't you reply to the original posters question? I think its an interesting point, what is the stance from the RC church in Italy and Sicily to Cosa Nostra members? Complete and utter horsehit and you know fully well that it is. And because you keep commenting/trolling on sensitive topics that you should stay out of. Piss off to a UDA, UVF, UFF or Orange Order forum. You'll fit in better. I think it's absolutely revolting that you are comparing the British Army killing British terrorists to the British Army killing women and children civilians. You are sick in the head.
I invoke my right under the 5th amendment of the United States constitution and decline to answer the question.
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Re: The Mafia's relationship with the Catholic Church?
[Re: sbhc]
#870916
12/29/15 12:57 PM
12/29/15 12:57 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 711 Great Britain
British
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 711
Great Britain
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The only troll is you Moe, 3 posts on this thread and not one that's related to the point made by the original poster
What a vile little man you are...
British is best....
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Re: The Mafia's relationship with the Catholic Church?
[Re: British]
#1009126
04/07/21 05:09 AM
04/07/21 05:09 AM
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 30
TottiNotGotti
Wiseguy
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Wiseguy
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 30
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_(1972) Nobody condoning terrorism here but the IRA wouldn't exist if the British Army wasn't slaughtering defenseless, unarmed, innocent women and children in the street. Not to mention British Army soldiers going off the reservation and personally committing murders i.e. Robert Nairac. Context is important. The IRA were bombing and murdering way before the British army arrived to try and keep the peace. British forces killed many loyalists as well, Brian Robinson, the set up of Billy Wright and many more Stop with the incessant victimhood card, anyhow why can't you reply to the original posters question? I think its an interesting point, what is the stance from the RC church in Italy and Sicily to Cosa Nostra members? If you are going to comment on the origins of the conflict and how the British army came to be in Ireland at that time at least be honest about. Ulster Loyalists were whipping things up into a frenzy long before the Provos had to emerge to defend their people. As for the discussion at hand, there is simply no similarity or comparison between the (frankly difficult) relationship between Irish Republicans and the Church and Italian gangsters and the Church. In fact it is bizarre that the opening comment on this is from someone from Tipperary, with that area’s own proud record in the fight for freedom, talking about “murdersâ€. The War of Independence saw ordinary Irish men and boys do the hard yards for their country and thank God that they did. Thank God also that there were good priests there to minister to them in that crisis. For an understanding of the value these men placed on their faith I would recommend anyone to read Guerilla Days In Ireland by Tom Barry and they would see quite clearly that they are dealing with a different beast to criminals and murderers who associate themselves with the Church to assuage their guilt or for reasons of cultural attachment. They were humble young men who fought and died for their country, usually single and upstanding individuals, not philandering gangsters prepared to make others pay for their own personal gain.
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