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J. Edgar Hoover and the Mob
#724736
07/07/13 11:00 PM
07/07/13 11:00 PM
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 151
Mr_Willie_Cicci
OP
Made Member
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Please no "crossdressing" crap. That was a rumor started in 1993.....
But I have heard from more reputable sources that a big part of the reason that Hoover didn't go after LCN until he was forced to was because he was a very big, big time fan of the ponies and high up guys would give him the fix for the horses....Does anyone know if this is true?
Last edited by Mr_Willie_Cicci; 07/07/13 11:00 PM.
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Re: J. Edgar Hoover and the Mob
[Re: Mr_Willie_Cicci]
#724773
07/08/13 02:05 AM
07/08/13 02:05 AM
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,498
Lou_Para
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Hoover knew about the Mob,but he didn't go after them because he didn't want his agents to be corrupted by the huge amounts of money that the Families could spread around. He was more concerned with public relations,and so he went after famous bank robbers,kidnappers,auto thefts ,and of course Communists.
He was reputed to have told Frank Costello at the Stork Club,"just stay out of my bailiwick". Gambling busts were not Hoover's priority,and as a result he failed to understand that after Prohibition ended,gambling became a huge contributor to the Mafia's power and influence.
When the Apalachin bust occurred,Hoover had to cover his ass,so to get around having denied the existence of the Mafia for so many years he created a new term. That term was La Cosa Nostra. Now Hoover could say "Oh no, these weren't Mafia guys that got arrested,these were members of the Cosa Nostra,and of course we've been investigating them for quite a while.
As far as the horse racing,Hoover would get tips on fixed races from Walter Winchell,who got them from Frank Costello,who got them from bookmaker Frank Erickson. Hoover would let himself be seen at the $2.00 window,while one of his agents placed the real bets at the $100.00 window. Hoover would claim that as a student of horse breeding, he only went to the track when one of his friends was racing a horse that he owned, and he would make small token wagers so as not to embarrass his hosts.
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Re: J. Edgar Hoover and the Mob
[Re: Lou_Para]
#724788
07/08/13 04:38 AM
07/08/13 04:38 AM
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 5,461 Underground
Toodoped
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Murder Ink
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Hoover knew about the Mob,but he didn't go after them because he didn't want his agents to be corrupted by the huge amounts of money that the Families could spread around. He was more concerned with public relations,and so he went after famous bank robbers,kidnappers,auto thefts ,and of course Communists.
He was reputed to have told Frank Costello at the Stork Club,"just stay out of my bailiwick". Gambling busts were not Hoover's priority,and as a result he failed to understand that after Prohibition ended,gambling became a huge contributor to the Mafia's power and influence.
When the Apalachin bust occurred,Hoover had to cover his ass,so to get around having denied the existence of the Mafia for so many years he created a new term. That term was La Cosa Nostra. Now Hoover could say "Oh no, these weren't Mafia guys that got arrested,these were members of the Cosa Nostra,and of course we've been investigating them for quite a while.
As far as the horse racing,Hoover would get tips on fixed races from Walter Winchell,who got them from Frank Costello,who got them from bookmaker Frank Erickson. Hoover would let himself be seen at the $2.00 window,while one of his agents placed the real bets at the $100.00 window. Hoover would claim that as a student of horse breeding, he only went to the track when one of his friends was racing a horse that he owned, and he would make small token wagers so as not to embarrass his hosts. Yeah ive read also that Hoover was a racing track junkie and Costello provided the info.What do you think,is it true that Lansky and mob used to have a picture from Hoover in some strange position with another man or dressed as a woman?Do you think that the story is true?
Mongol General: Conan, what is best in life?
Conan: To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women.
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Re: J. Edgar Hoover and the Mob
[Re: Mr_Willie_Cicci]
#724880
07/08/13 03:52 PM
07/08/13 03:52 PM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,841 OC, CA
Faithful1
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,841
OC, CA
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Read Ronald Kessler's books on the FBI. He shows that the "photos", if they existed, were frauds. Bill Bonanno claimed he saw some photos, and if he did they were phony. Jimmy Alo was interviewed late in his life and said if he and Lansky knew about the photos they would have blackmailed Hoover into putting a stop into the investigations on Lansky. That's evidence itself that there were no real photos: Lansky was one of the most investigated people the FBI went after.
As for Hoover's alleged homosexuality, who knows? No evidence either way, except he did date a famous actress in the 1940s. People who knew him said he was married to his job. The fact is, not everyone is interested in sex.
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Re: J. Edgar Hoover and the Mob
[Re: Mr_Willie_Cicci]
#724944
07/08/13 10:38 PM
07/08/13 10:38 PM
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,498
Lou_Para
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From everything I've read and researched over the years,it's pretty much a given that Hoover's supposed fetish for cross dressing is really an urban legend.As far as his sexual preference,the Clyde Tolson rumor is somewhat feasible,however some who knew Hoover have stated that he seemed more of an asexual person. He appears to be a guy who lived for his work,and it would not surprise me if he died a virgin.Hoover was an extremely weird guy,and according to some sources,he actually used Astroturf on his lawn so it was always neat and perfect. Hoover was more comfortable around his own gender,was obsessed with neatness and routine,and IMHO,pretty much borderline nuts.
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Re: J. Edgar Hoover and the Mob
[Re: Lou_Para]
#725093
07/09/13 02:39 PM
07/09/13 02:39 PM
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 5,461 Underground
Toodoped
Murder Ink
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Murder Ink
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From everything I've read and researched over the years,it's pretty much a given that Hoover's supposed fetish for cross dressing is really an urban legend.As far as his sexual preference,the Clyde Tolson rumor is somewhat feasible,however some who knew Hoover have stated that he seemed more of an asexual person. He appears to be a guy who lived for his work,and it would not surprise me if he died a virgin.Hoover was an extremely weird guy,and according to some sources,he actually used Astroturf on his lawn so it was always neat and perfect. Hoover was more comfortable around his own gender,was obsessed with neatness and routine,and IMHO,pretty much borderline nuts. Good point....
Mongol General: Conan, what is best in life?
Conan: To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women.
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Re: J. Edgar Hoover and the Mob
[Re: furio_from_naples]
#776144
05/07/14 12:06 AM
05/07/14 12:06 AM
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Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 339
cornuto_e_contento
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 339
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according to the legend the Mafia had pictures or even a movie in which Hoover had sex with his deputy Clyde Tolson and he disguised himself as a woman. I doubt that's legend as J. Edgar was a not so secret drag queen and gay man that was terrified of being outed because of who he was and what he did for a job; but he had a lot of internalised homophobia and the fact that being anything other than completely heterosexual was illegal for most of his life did not help. Clyde was his partner/boyfriend, and no J. Edgar did not die a virgin.
Last edited by cornuto_e_contento; 05/07/14 12:13 AM.
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Re: J. Edgar Hoover and the Mob
[Re: Mr_Willie_Cicci]
#776145
05/07/14 12:24 AM
05/07/14 12:24 AM
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 388
slumpy
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Posts: 388
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Hoover was a politician who was interested in his bottom line and increasing the budget ceiling. I don't think he really had much of an interest in actually combating crime. At least that is always the impression I had of the man. I've often wondered if Hoover received bonus pay based on his agents' success rates, which would account for his steadfast refusal to acknowledge the Mafia and instead concentrate on easier busts, like bank robbers, etc.
I don't know why you guys are fixating on his sexuality, honestly.
Last edited by slumpy; 05/07/14 12:25 AM.
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Re: J. Edgar Hoover and the Mob
[Re: Mr_Willie_Cicci]
#776181
05/07/14 07:55 AM
05/07/14 07:55 AM
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,262 >>>OVA THERE
njcapo35
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Wasn't that rumor(cross-dressing) about the Genovese associate Ed "the skull" Murphy getting a photo of hoover cross dressing from a male prostitute by the name of John Paul ranier? The other rumor was that he was at the Plaza Hotel for a party when a women witnessed hoover go into a bedroom with young blond boys where he had sex while one of the boys read passages from the Bible. She also said that her husband lewis rosenstiel had sex with the boys while lawyer roy cohen watched. Pretty sick shit there!
Last edited by njcapo35; 05/07/14 07:59 AM.
"Jersey...It's where my story begins."
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Re: J. Edgar Hoover and the Mob
[Re: Snakes]
#870074
12/19/15 04:19 PM
12/19/15 04:19 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,624 AZ
Turnbull
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,624
AZ
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Hoover held onto power for ~50 years in large part by maintaining files on the vices of politicians, public officials and celebrities. That experience taught him to be discrete about his own vices--and to let out just enough about them to keep the blackmailers at bay, the better for him to blackmail others. The idea that he'd let himself be photographed in drag is absurd.
Hoover didn't go after the Mob for two reasons. First, he was obsessed with the Communist Party USA, and he knew that he could always get Congress to appropriate more money to fight the "Red Menace," even though it practically disappeared after WWII. What Senator or Representative would go on record as opposing more money for the FBI to fight the "Red Menace"?
Second, Hoover often said that if local and state law enforcement did their jobs, the rackets associated with organized crime would disappear in weeks. He wasn't wrong. The other side of that statement was that he knew how Mob money could corrupt any and all law enforcement. His reputation, and the Bureau's, rested on the myth of FBI "incorruptibility." The last thing he wanted was to expose his agents to the Mob and its limitless ability to bribe law enforcement.
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu, E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu... E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
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Re: J. Edgar Hoover and the Mob
[Re: Turnbull]
#870104
12/19/15 10:46 PM
12/19/15 10:46 PM
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 853
Fleming_Ave
Underboss
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Underboss
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Posts: 853
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Hoover held onto power for ~50 years in large part by maintaining files on the vices of politicians, public officials and celebrities. That experience taught him to be discrete about his own vices--and to let out just enough about them to keep the blackmailers at bay, the better for him to blackmail others. The idea that he'd let himself be photographed in drag is absurd.
Hoover didn't go after the Mob for two reasons. First, he was obsessed with the Communist Party USA, and he knew that he could always get Congress to appropriate more money to fight the "Red Menace," even though it practically disappeared after WWII. What Senator or Representative would go on record as opposing more money for the FBI to fight the "Red Menace"?
Second, Hoover often said that if local and state law enforcement did their jobs, the rackets associated with organized crime would disappear in weeks. He wasn't wrong. The other side of that statement was that he knew how Mob money could corrupt any and all law enforcement. ^THIS^
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Re: J. Edgar Hoover and the Mob
[Re: CabriniGreen]
#870165
12/20/15 06:15 PM
12/20/15 06:15 PM
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,989
getthesenets
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Underboss
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Posts: 2,989
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ok...good replies Once the Kefauver hearings took place in '51, like Cabrini made reference to, what kept Hoover and the FBI from doing any kind of investigation on the mafia? Not a chest beating public campaign, but just investigation or fact gathering? Not even after a public hearing that captured the imagination of the American press and people? shown for free in movie theaters across the country before most people had tvs Yes, Commies were a better Bogeyman that Feds could trot out to get funding...but that still doesn't explain why the Feds wouldn't gather info or "low key" go after known major crime syndicate that was just exposed in nationally covered hearings. I disagree with, and the facts seem to dispute, Hoover's claim that local and state law enforcement simply enforcing the laws on the books would eliminate the rackets. State LE enforcing existing laws would have netted street arrests of the guys at the bottom of the hierarchy. The guys pulling strings would remain on top and the street guys would be replaced by other hungry street guys.(Just like what happened decades later with the WAR on drugs) and the report was the Kefauver Committee U.S. Senate Special Committee to Investigate Organized Crime in Interstate Commerce keyword being interstate..which in modern times is a red flag meaning feds....not state law enforcement. In fact, it wasn't until 10 years AFTER Rico laws were passed that any major dent was put into LCN....with substantial players being convicted. Hoover's lack of action allowed the LCN to expand into more rackets and become ingrained literally into certain industries. Incompetence? or blackmail?
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