Originally Posted By: IvyLeague
Nobody is denying that high level associates can have a lot of influence. Sometimes even more than some made guys if they are close enough to the boss or in a key money making position. But technically speaking, they are still associates. I see no convincing evidence that Fernandez was more than that. In other words, I don't believe he went through any kind of formal making ritual ie was seen in the same way as actual made members who had.

As to your other point, I've said before that it appears most of the drugs the Rizzutos smuggled went into and were distributed within Canada. A smaller portion went south across the border to NY. Even at the Rizzutos peak they were never the main supply of drugs to NY. Not even close. And it's been 30+ years since the American mob was.


We have less evidence (read: none) that he wasn't made -- But we DO know Fernandez claimed to be made and that he was doing business in Sicily. I understand and partially agree with the sentiment of your posts, but you are obstinately dismissing Fernandez out of hand simply because it does not fit into your preferred narrative and no other reason. We don't even know if they have a making ceremony at all, so it's kind of a moot point.

I'm not saying (and never will unless more evidence comes to light) that he was made with 100% certainty, but I am not willing to dismiss it unless there is ample reason to do so. We should all be skeptical and we certainly should not take Fernandez at his word, but for the time being we have no contradicting perspectives to challenge it with. Hopefully we will soon and I will gladly eat my own words if it ever comes to light that Fernandez was full of shit... because i don't care if he was or wasn't, I have no vested interest. I'd just like to know the truth.

My gut feeling is that there aren't any "real" members outside of those with blood ties as others have expressed before. That really seems to be the case with them. They'll let you in, they may even call you a member, but you'll never be in the inner circle unless you have a more formal tie.

Last edited by slumpy; 12/18/15 12:09 PM.